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Why i hope to remove randomness
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Aristotle

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Aristotle

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1. Randomness means luck will affect the outcome in this strategy game which we expect to be a fair pvp environment. For instance, sometimes marauder can kill a marine on base, but sometimes cannot. Such things happen at the beginning will influence the whole match. How can i get glory if i’m not sure luck or skill bring me victory. Only after many games played, can rank tell you your wins based on skill. But how about in every single game, especially in tournaments? Mirror is great but not enough.

2. Randomness forces players to undo endlessly in order to find the best attack sequence. Some people like this, more people get used to this. But the procession is meaningless and tedious when you’ve got many units. We plan which unit to attack which and how to use gang up. That’s enough. It’s unreasonable who can endure the tedious procession and undo the most win the match.

Thanks for reading.
drumstep

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drumstep

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I've seen this mentioned a few times in the past and while I understand the arguments and the appeal of having no random factor, I don't think I agree. Maybe I'm not as much of a "hardcore" strategy gamer, but to me part of the fun is being able to calculate things like: "If I move my unit to point X, I have an 80% chance of being able to eventually cap base Y, but a 20% chance of failing and falling behind," and then deciding whether the risk is worth it. Removing the random factor would change it so a unit is either guaranteed to survive or guaranteed to die. It could also reduce variety so that games on the same map eventually become the same with everyone playing the solved best strategy.

I do understand the option to undo changes the risk calculations and I use it pretty heavily myself, but unless players have a very large unit pool they aren't that likely to find a combination that produces a completely unpredictable result (though I did once have a +3 gangup buried underling on plains do 4 to a plasma tank), and I greatly prefer weighing the risk and reward rather than a simple "dead or alive" system.

So those are my thoughts, and I will most likely stay with the game regardless of what the devs do, but personally I like the random factor the way it is.
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Aristotle

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Aristotle

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I just had a match in Championship May 2016, a mirror game which is considered as fair play. The map is black diamond, both are sapiens. In the two games, we just made the completely same steps during the first 4 rounds. But in the 5 round, my opponent kill my marauder on his base and prevent me from capturing, while I cannot do that because of the random factor. The result is I lost a base in one game and lost the game soon. Although, I finally won the other game, he won more quickly.

I know I was not careful enough to prevent these things happen, and i must have many mistakes during the match. I know if I were more experienced or more skillful, i would win. But don't you think the random factor has already hurt the fair play? It's true that luck matters in the real world. But I come here for certainty, to find a way to win by strategy, no pay, no grind, no luck.
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Edisontrent7

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Edisontrent7

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Or, how about we make it so that it tournament matches, both players get the same randomness modifiers to prevent players from winning because they were more lucky with that factor.

Does that sound like a good idea

Since when did we have Racecars with machine guns?
drumstep

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drumstep

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  Edisontrent7 wrote:Or, how about we make it so that it tournament matches, both players get the same randomness modifiers to prevent players from winning because they were more lucky with that factor.

Does that sound like a good idea


That wouldn't change anything unless both players made the exact same moves for the entire game.
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Edisontrent7

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Edisontrent7

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  drumstep wrote:
  Edisontrent7 wrote:Or, how about we make it so that it tournament matches, both players get the same randomness modifiers to prevent players from winning because they were more lucky with that factor.

Does that sound like a good idea


That wouldn't change anything unless both players made the exact same moves for the entire game.


I am not trying to turn tournamant matchs into mirrored MOVES, but i am suggesting that the randomness factor is changed in tournamant matchs to prevent wins by luck rather than strategy

Since when did we have Racecars with machine guns?
drumstep

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drumstep

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  Edisontrent7 wrote:
  drumstep wrote:
  Edisontrent7 wrote:Or, how about we make it so that it tournament matches, both players get the same randomness modifiers to prevent players from winning because they were more lucky with that factor.

Does that sound like a good idea


That wouldn't change anything unless both players made the exact same moves for the entire game.


I am not trying to turn tournamant matchs into mirrored MOVES, but i am suggesting that the randomness factor is changed in tournamant matchs to prevent wins by luck rather than strategy


The random string for the entire game is generated before the first turn, and each unit uses a different size piece depending on it's health. If at any point one player does something different from the other, the string will become out of sync.
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TheDragon

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TheDragon

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Actually I think the string is generated at the beginning of each turn. But I had heard (not sure if correct) that in mirror tournies that the same string was used for each turn.

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drumstep

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drumstep

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  TheDragon wrote:Actually I think the string is generated at the beginning of each turn. But I had heard (not sure if correct) that in mirror tournies that the same string was used for each turn.


It definitely isn't the same between mirrored games, but I guess I could be wrong about when it's generated.
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legia

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legia

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For now randomness wouldn't be removed.
For me I would like to have little bit less random factor because sometimes (1-2%) it gives a huge difference in fight result.

I am somekind of veteran here. Check my videos about UniWar on YouTube: LINK.
Playlist in English: LINK.


Porphyr

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Porphyr

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  drumstep wrote: It could also reduce variety so that games on the same map eventually become the same with everyone playing the solved best strategy.

No way, never. Take chess: only 1 race, only 6 unit types, only 1 map (pretty small), no terrain, no randomness.
It's been played for thousands of years, but still there is not one single solved best strategy.
In fact, almost every game played is different...
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Aristotle

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Aristotle

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Thank Porphyry for bringing up this topic in chat room. Seems many players want to maintain status quo.
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Aristotle

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Aristotle

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  legia wrote:For now randomness wouldn't be removed.
For me I would like to have little bit less random factor because sometimes (1-2%) it gives a huge difference in fight result.


So how about making every hp 10 random numbers ( now it has 6 ) ? It can reduce the probability of weak or critical hit.

If you like this idea, please tell xavi. I'm not sure whether he can see my post.

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legia

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legia

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  Aristotle wrote:
  legia wrote:For now randomness wouldn't be removed.
For me I would like to have little bit less random factor because sometimes (1-2%) it gives a huge difference in fight result.


So how about making every hp 10 random numbers ( now it has 6 ) ? It can reduce the probability of weak or critical hit.

If you like this idea, please tell xavi. I'm not sure whether he can see my post.



It's big change to the game. You must involve more top players to this discussion.

I am somekind of veteran here. Check my videos about UniWar on YouTube: LINK.
Playlist in English: LINK.


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