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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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So I LOVE the infector. The mobility 8 is so awesome. Against Saps it CAN be a game changer.

But at cost 300, even in kvs, it can be a risky play. And it does not function in the same way the 200 cost engineer and assimilator do.

I'm finishing up a game now I will archive where I play TvK. Two bases are close together at the bottom and I use an early assimilator to force the opponent to build a swarmer.

Then I build a mecha which pounds the swarmer. Naturally. even if I lose the assimilator I'm still up (I didn't because swarmers don't kill stuff apparently).

So, infector in a KvS in that same spot? Opponent says "uhhhh okay..." *Marauder* "NOW WHAT KHRAL!?"

So, bummer. You can't leverage your opponent into a bad decision that you have an easy counter to. But infector can do different things in a different way. I get it.

But what exactly is it doing?
Will try to break down each units role in each matchup - with a specific note on what map types they excel in.

------------------

Infector

KvK
Healing battery. Gives the premium triple heal rate. Possibly situationally useful, but due to cost and nature of KvK force composition, it isn't going to be a common play.

KvT
Healing battery. No secondary use at all. Again situationally it could be used to bring your army back up to speed. Given walkers existence it is a huge risk. Very uncommon. *

KvS
Okay bread and butter! At last! So we can: steal marines. We can: cast a plague. Capture a base. With that premier mobility delivery is a cinch! Survival on the other hand... Against a faction that has marauders, helicopters, and to a lesser extent mobile artillery... Not such a cinch. Plague can have a huge effect on opponent placement. It can force your opponent to build engineers. It reduces turn by turn combat effectiveness. Or, it can do literally nothing. It's swing in effectiveness depends wildly on opponent strategy, skill, force composition, the map, and god knows what else. It can be a game changer, so that certainly has some value. 300 credits ? Well, let's compare....

--------

Engineer:
SvS: basically the same as the infector in KvK matchup above. Engineers can make their cost back a lot easier than infectors though - especially healing helicopters. Probably used a tad more than infectors in a mirror match, but it's close.

SvK: cures plague. It actually does something. Compare this to KvT above. This will see play in almost any SvK matchup where an infector is used. And sometimes it'll just be used to increase repair rates of course.

SvT: it's a beast. EMP has an immediate, huge effect on a game IF it can be delivered. It certainly requires a lot to deliver. No argument. But if the cost was the same, the argument could be made that an engineer outclasses a infector. With the 100 difference... I don't think it is close, personally. EMP is a beast. Super mechas (Protomen) are awesome.

--------
Assimilator
TvT: I don't know why but I find myself using these a lot in this matchup. Usually to heal speeders quickly, and to give myself an edge in a plasma v plasma war. Of the 3 mirrors this is one for me, not that it is an every game piece by any means.

TvS: UV keeps it relevant. Not gonna out produce a walker but heal rate for plasmas and UV keeps it useful. They're a low priority target, and I've had two UVs from one assimilator in this matchup multiple times recently. A solid choice, if not spectacular.

TvK: well, personally I think this is a real terror in this matchup. Uv isn't gonna win you a game by itself, but mechas and assimilators together are the answer to swarmers, garudas, and underlings. Well, you know, situationally :p so basically says to the Khral player: build a Pinzer. On a small high income map no problem. What about on a lower income map with multiple points on contention? Almost a free win. Coupled with low cost and utility of UV this is a solid choice and I would say a better unit outright than infector in KvS regardless of cost.


-------

Of course this is just my opinion. I would love to hear what you guys think in the comments below.

I also think we can all agree that currently KvS is one of the worst matchups in the game currently. So, I think patching up the infector could go a long way to evening that out...

Here are some ideas, in no particular order, for what I think would make the infector worth while:


Give infector two actions. Seriously how boss would that be? This is the last thing I thought of, but it is my new favorite choice. Please let's agree this is the way to go now the other things I thought of:

1. Give infector 7 or so defense
2. Make infector cost 250, and give it a nominal defense (2-4 - enough so it can survive a marauder attack ideally.... If possible haha)
3. Make infector cost 200 and leave as is
4. Give infector a KvT ability (my least favorite choice since this matchup seems pretty good) ... For example though, a tech plague that reduces defense of an affected unit by 2.(or 1). Spreads the same as plague. Healed the same way. Does not stack or corrode or anything, just a -2 debuff.



1. In addition to above, consider: Power up infected marines- more mobility, native plague upon being taken, higher stats. OR Give them the plague ability !! That would be fun and would make infected marines feel more on par with the super bugs or Megaman.


Okay, that's all I've got. Thank you for reading. I hope we can get a consensus and make something happen.

Much love
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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Two actions for infector would make it something of a base capturing specialist too. I think that is frickin amazing and would be a great way for Khral to play. Man I love that thought.
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LkASr

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LkASr

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why not give all support units a mobility buff by 1 (7-9-7), that way they can be more useful

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amidama

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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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Amidama. That all makes sense to me and sounds very reasonable

I was thinking a move after attack would be good, make stealing marines a little easier.

I mentioned marines being auto infected, because as we both know often taking a marine or delivering a plague is the last action an infector gets to make. Ideally it isn't, but if the marine got plague and could spread it, then even if the infector dies you maybe got to steal a marine AND spread a plague instead of just one.

Of course often the new marine just dies and it won't matter but sometimes it'll work out hah

I like the 2 radius spread. That would make the virus a lot harder to control for sure! It would probably force the saps to have two engineers out I imagine. I definitely like that idea.

7 armor may be too much, I kinda just chose a random number
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wookieontheweb

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wookieontheweb

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What if plagued marines were under your control for 1 turn?
I.E. you plague them then run them around and attack their own units for a turn (maybe at reduced effectiveness). They still spread plague. Once plagued they can't be re-plagued until they've been cured.
Doesn't really help in the other match ups I know but still I like the idea

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Jayce429

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Jayce429

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What if gave the infector a ten turn reload ability to lock down any one tile in a certain range and prevent enemy heavy units from moving across it. This would give it a huge buff against titans and would help against saps.

Alternatively, the lock down would increase travel costs for enemy units. This would help in all three matchups and would-be a bit more versatile while less dominating in special conditions.
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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  Jayce429 wrote:What if gave the infector a ten turn reload ability to lock down any one tile in a certain range and prevent enemy heavy units from moving across it. This would give it a huge buff against titans and would help against saps.

Alternatively, the lock down would increase travel costs for enemy units. This would help in all three matchups and would-be a bit more versatile while less dominating in special conditions.


Don't wanna mess with KvT much. Most ppl really enjoy KvT and feel it's pretty balanced
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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  amidama wrote:Move after infefting, as 2 moves would be op. it willbe best unit for base capturing and fsstest light unit with mobility 16 similar to speeder. Also kharlean dont have any retreat or move adter attack units. Ints for S and T.

K should do something or die trying, no retreat for them =)

imwouldnt want to contentrate much on infected marines as it is SO rare when you can/should infect them. Double move would make it easier, but i think its not the right way.

What about somehow connect plague and infedted marine status?
As if infeftor can turn a marine that is in a plague range?
or possibly all marines in a plague range? (Probably way too op)
Or give infedted marines oltion to make other marines to infected marines? Like a zombie =)
(P.s. and its well known - all games become better with zombies!)
Would not change much but would make each infected marine extremely important. And it would worth to die trying to get one to infect some more later.

and probably too complex one: what if plague would have few % per turn to make mariner into infected marine?
As if: marine will turn into infected marine on average once in 10-20 turns of being infected.



God I love those last two ideas. Those both sound like an absolute blast to play would REALLY up the pressure to cure your plagued marines ASAP
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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What if: when a marine is plagued for 3 turns (on the third turn) then he becomes an infected marine?

Too strong?
amidama

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Hakumen
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Uniwarpoland

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Uniwarpoland

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Did you watched my tutorial about Infector?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nzd7sEC7Zg

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amidama

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Hakumen
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Michaelrn

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Michaelrn

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I like the idea to use the infector to try to balance the match K vs S. There are some interesting suggestions here that I liked :
- larger radius of plague;
- give it some defense ( 3 would be enough to reliably survive one attack from any unit );
- reduction in the cost ( although it would probably have to get a nerf to the repair bonus too );
- a buff to the infected marine.

And another suggestion : what if the plague ability create a cloud in the area, for the duration of one round, and any Sapiens unit already inside this area or that move into it become plagued? Alternatively the plague can be a passive ability, like an aura around the infector that automatically poison nearby units.
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