1.9.80-82 NEW UNITS are RELEASED

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Dec 28, 2016 10:26

Subject: Re:1.9.80-82 NEW UNITS are RELEASED

copeab

Messages: 31,
Joined: Jun 25, 2014,
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Just a suggestion ...

Change the guardian repair rate to 0.5, rounding down after any modifiers. This means it can't heal on it's own,gets 1 point from an assimilator or med base or 3 points from both.

If you think this is too generous, make it 0.2. This means it must be on a med base with an assimilator next to it to repair a single point.

Jan 18, 2017 20:52

Subject: Re:1.9.80-82 NEW UNITS are RELEASED

simsverd

Messages: 921,
Joined: Dec 02, 2010,
Location: Bergen, Norway
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We plan to deploy some balance changes to the new blaster units later tonight.
More changes are possible before they are allowed in rated and tournament games.

These changes will make the bopper more flexible while preventing it to become to overpowered, and reducing the possible mass-Borfly-play in the Khral vs Khral matchup.
Borfly: decrease air attack from 6 to 1
Borfly : increase AP air to 50%
Bopper: move and attack
Bopper: decrease air attack from 7 to 2
Bopper: increase air AP to 35%
Bopper; decrease GH from 7 to 5
Bopper: decrease AP vs GH to 25%
Bopper: decrease GL from 5 to 3
Bopper: reduce range from 2-3 to 3

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 18, 2017 21:12

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Jan 18, 2017 22:00

Subject: Re:1.9.80-82 NEW UNITS are RELEASED

LkASr

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simsverd wrote:We plan to deploy some balance changes to the new blaster units later tonight.
More changes are possible before they are allowed in rated and tournament games.

These changes will make the bopper more flexible while preventing it to become to overpowered, and reducing the possible mass-Borfly-play in the Khral vs Khral matchup.
Bopper: decrease air attack from 7 to 2
Bopper: increase air AP to 35%
Bopper; decrease GH from 7 to 5
Bopper: decrease AP vs GH to 25%
Bopper: decrease GL from 5 to 3
Bopper: reduce range from 2-3 to 3

But simsverd, said flexibility isn't worth the weight if the bopper can only attack in a single tile (3). I can understand the armor piercing nerf tho (gangup demolition

)

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Jan 18, 2017 22:33

Subject: Re:1.9.80-82 NEW UNITS are RELEASED

Duaneski

Messages: 1021,
Joined: Nov 27, 2015,
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Excited to try out bopper 2.0!!

Jan 19, 2017 01:06

Subject: Re:1.9.80-82 NEW UNITS are RELEASED

th1whoknocks

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Joined: Sep 27, 2015,
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Are the abbreviations (GL, AP, etc.) defined anywhere?

Jan 19, 2017 02:54

Subject: Re:1.9.80-82 NEW UNITS are RELEASED

killermax636

Messages: 39,
Joined: Aug 19, 2012,
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th1whoknocks wrote:Are the abbreviations (GL, AP, etc.) defined anywhere?

GH refers to ground heavy.
GL refers to ground light.
AP refers to armor piercing.
They are in the game itself, you can check them in the info page.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 19, 2017 02:55

Jan 19, 2017 03:35

Subject: Re:1.9.80-82 NEW UNITS are RELEASED

killermax636

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simsverd wrote:We plan to deploy some balance changes to the new blaster units later tonight.
More changes are possible before they are allowed in rated and tournament games.

These changes will make the bopper more flexible while preventing it to become to overpowered, and reducing the possible mass-Borfly-play in the Khral vs Khral matchup.
Borfly: decrease air attack from 6 to 1
Borfly : increase AP air to 50%
Bopper: move and attack
Bopper: decrease air attack from 7 to 2
Bopper: increase air AP to 35%
Bopper; decrease GH from 7 to 5
Bopper: decrease AP vs GH to 25%
Bopper: decrease GL from 5 to 3
Bopper: reduce range from 2-3 to 3

Great to see the changes to bopper. Though badly nerfed in terms of power, it retrieves the vital feature AAM, making it more favorable to maneuver anyway.

However, I am still a bit worried about the borfly's change. It is mentioned that this change is due to a worry about overusing them in KvK, but imo more attention should be paid to its anti-tank feature, in other words, its utility against T and S. I have played several games with the opponents using borflies. Being slow, defenseless without AAM, they turned out to be nothing but popcorn of marauders and speeders, and believe it or not, marines and mechas. As for tanks, they are hardly affected while having my own blasters or artilleries. So, why not grant borfly AAM like the other two? Khrals are supposed to be relatively more mobile than the other two races. Being cheaper doesn't necessarily mean being weaker, especially to the degree of being useless in any way but being enemy's experience juice.
Just like the change to battery a few years ago, where it was granted MAA with price raised 100, but become more favorable to be used. There may be also many ways to make borfly balanced with AAM. Increasing the cost, nerfing its power maybe applicable.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Jan 19, 2017 03:45

Jan 19, 2017 03:51

Subject: Re:1.9.80-82 NEW UNITS are RELEASED

Duaneski

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Joined: Nov 27, 2015,
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Max - I had just posted in game chat similar concerns. I wanted to play some matches first buuuuut my gut reaction after seeing the bopper in action was just what you posted

So, GOUT is gonna stomp me in a match or two haha. Will see if we can learn anything there

But in theory, I agree with you

Jan 19, 2017 04:27

Subject: Re:1.9.80-82 NEW UNITS are RELEASED

killermax636

Messages: 39,
Joined: Aug 19, 2012,
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Duaneski wrote:Max - I had just posted in game chat similar concerns. I wanted to play some matches first buuuuut my gut reaction after seeing the bopper in action was just what you posted

So, GOUT is gonna stomp me in a match or two haha. Will see if we can learn anything there

But in theory, I agree with you

Sounds good. I also feel like playing some more.

Jan 20, 2017 12:27

Subject: Re:1.9.80-82 NEW UNITS are RELEASED

MSonny

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Joined: Oct 05, 2016,
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I don't really get the new Bopper. If I remeber correctly the use of the new Units was to bust tanks. And with the decreased damage and AP it does 1 damage to a plasma.

With defense penalties and on a mountain you may get up to 4 damage. But with the relativly slow mobility and the one tile attack only, it shouldn't be too hard to avoid that (as the Titans player).
And the sapier tank does more damage against both ground heavy and ground light at only 100 extra credit costs.

Imho the only advantage is the possibility to attack boats. I haven't used the Bopper this way yet, but I guess with it low defense it will most likley die in the counter fire...

I play lots of multiplayer games with a group of friends and maybe we play the game wrong, but the Borfly and the Bopper are seldom used and if they ate, they tend to get killed without really doing damage (the Bobber only after the decrease and the Borfly was useless even before it got nerved).

Ironiccially is the only unit that is used greatly with much efficiency is the Guardian that got no decrease whatsoever.

Jan 20, 2017 14:26

Subject: Re:1.9.80-82 NEW UNITS are RELEASED

simsverd

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Joined: Dec 02, 2010,
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MSonny wrote: But with the relativly slow mobility and the one tile attack only, it shouldn't be too hard to avoid that (as the Titans player).

well move and attack make the bopper so much more flexible and useful.. previously it was very hard to get it into position to hit tanks (at least in higher levels of play). While only 3 attack range - this is actually 1-5 attack since you can move 2 tiles forward or backwards before firing - meaning you can hit so much more tiles than without move-attack. Currently it does mostly 2 on plain, 3 on forest/mtn and 4 with gangup. We are considering to change it later if it proves to weak.
See probability of dammages here : https://unicalc.github.io/web/

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Jan 20, 2017 14:27

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Jan 20, 2017 15:56

Subject: Re:1.9.80-82 NEW UNITS are RELEASED

MSonny

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I agree that the MAA is a big advantage. And I like the idea, to give it the just 3 tile attack.

But it is difficult to give the bopper a terrain bonus, cause of its movement and the range. The enemy has just to has to stay clear of the the 3 tiles of the terrain (of course it depends on the map if this is possible or not).

But on many maps i have to go with the base damage of 1.8 points of damage to a plasma. (Plain to plain, no gang up). At the same circumstances the tank does 2.6 damage. So if the income of the map is high enough I think that the tank will still be the best weapon of choice.

And of course you will keep an eye on it. Just wanted to give my opinion, since all of our group thought the same, when we read the changes. So keep up the good work.

By the way: great tool.

Jan 20, 2017 19:31

Subject: 1.9.80-82 NEW UNITS are RELEASED

LkASr

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Joined: Sep 24, 2015,
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I thought of this recently and I think that Siege should able to compliment the attack after move for the bopper. If it's gonna gain range, then it can, tho I'm thinking if siege can be implemented for bopper to counter walker pressure (which is the biggest disadvantage saps go against when Titans can streamroll against them, especially when walkers line up in riflemen rows)

Never surrender when you still have the chance.
"I have achieved navel superiority" -myself 2017
All the good stuff

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Jan 20, 2017 22:48

Subject: Re:1.9.80-82 NEW UNITS are RELEASED

Damn You Scuba

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Joined: Jan 20, 2017,
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I just want to say how INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING it is that you guys apply "balance fix" changes to games that are already in progress. I play with IRL friends, and since we're all busy adults, turns can take a day or two. It's absolutely infuriating waiting for your turn to come around, only to discover a unit has been completely redesigned since your last turn. It's literally changing the rules in the middle of the game: if your strategy hinged around using (or countering) boppers, you're screwed.

Once a game is in progress, units should be "locked in" so to speak and continue to behave the same way throughout that entire game. Changing mechanics and adding new units mid game makes strategic planning essentially impossible.

Jan 21, 2017 08:39

Subject: Re:1.9.80-82 NEW UNITS are RELEASED

simsverd

Messages: 921,
Joined: Dec 02, 2010,
Location: Bergen, Norway
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Hello!

I understand your frustration.
Its not currently possible to do what what you ask. All balance changes are immidiate on all clients. If we where to change that system you would still have to consider for how long.. games are not always done in minutes or hours.. they usually takes many days, some even months... its not practical to wait for a very long time after an announcement of changes.
That said, i agree that it would be better if we next time made the announcement some time in advance, for example 48 hous - giving players time to edjust the running games.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Jan 21, 2017 08:40

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