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New units on Khraleans' perspective
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cmbaptist

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cmbaptist

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Holographic disguise is secondary people... I'm mainly talking about the berserker boost to khrl units as I buff to plague. That will be the problem solver for Khrls. All parties concerning them shold be satisfied to some degree. As earth mentioned a stat increase to swarmer, guess what..They would get it when infected with berserk.

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dr. pepper

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dr. pepper

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Just FYI, I didn't suggest nerfing tank busters. I don't know the right move to make, but I do like the armor protection mechanic you mentioned. I had thought about something similar myself although my idea was for the 'tank' heavy ground units (exclude marauders, speeders, eclipses, etc.) would cause the tank busters armor piercing to 'miss' a certain percentage of the time.

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volf

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volf

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Boosting Khraleans by adding to their stats could over power them. However, by introducing a boost via the plague would make it a tactical buff which would be a great balancing effect.
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LkASr

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LkASr

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Buffing Borfly by nerfing mobility by 1 and increasing actions/turn by 1 can make it real effective for an Blaster unit, tho increasing its cost by 50 can balance this as it can attack twice when stationary. In turn, Borfly can finally become a great alternative for wyrm play.

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LkASr

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LkASr

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Next thing, I'd like to have Garuda to have armor penetration or armor protection vs aerial units, that way they can become true hard counter units vs aerial play (especially against helicopters) as most sapien units can mow them down easily. In general, I'd like to have the Khralean race as armor penetration specialist race, anyone agree?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 20, 2017 08:19


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dr. pepper

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dr. pepper

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The interesting thing about Borfly's is that they're not too bad if 1. you have adequate support to protect them and 2. you can force Titans to attack you. I realize this is pretty niche, which is why a lot claim they're underpowered. They are nearly impossible to use offensively as they have low mobility and Titans can easily destroy the units you are most likely using to protect them (underlings + swarmers). Normally I would have built Pinzers in the past, but they seem to be so underpowered vs. Guardians that I don't build them as much anymore. It's too easy to build a Mecha (park it directly in front of Pinzer) + Guardian and take off 5 or 6 health with one Guardian shot.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Feb 20, 2017 18:27

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cmbaptist

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cmbaptist

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@lkasr: dude what are you talking about... garudas are already superior to helicopter in every way. Fact.... if saps player builds only helicopters and khrl player builds only garudas... Khrl wins every time... it's when marines and marauders are added in the equation when garudas come up short because they lack the "mobility" to escape, not the the " piercing damage" Once Garuda attacks it's a commitment, as he can not hit and run similar to helicopters,marauders,and speeders. Now can we get some thoughts on Volf's plague buff?

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LkASr

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LkASr

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  cmbaptist wrote:@lkasr: dude what are you talking about... garudas are already superior to helicopter in every way. Fact.... if saps player builds only helicopters and khrl player builds only garudas... Khrl wins every time... it's when marines and marauders are added in the equation when garudas come up short because they lack the "mobility" to escape, not the the " piercing damage" Once Garuda attacks it's a commitment, as he can not hit and run similar to helicopters,marauders,and speeders. Now can we get some thoughts on Volf's plague buff?


That's the problem, Garuda's still weak in comparison even if it's cheaper than a Helicopter. Virtually every Sapien unit (except the Tank) can mow it down easily, and if you try to Pinzer, a Bopper can just counter it. Salamanders and Infectors are tricky to use. Even you plague them, their mobility is more than enough to avoid calamity. High tier players aren't dumb enough to spam Helicopters in front of a Garuda spam.

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cmbaptist

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cmbaptist

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Your completely avoiding the plague buff. Go back and reread volfs idea of adding a bezerk benefit two k units as part of the plague. Which adds stats to all K units that are within the plague area so on top of being able to plaguess sap units which we all know decreases their health one point per turn the new buff to the plague Woupdate add stats to the K units that are within the plague area so intern you would get your stats added to the Garuda that you're mentioning but I think you missed the whole idea

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cmbaptist

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cmbaptist

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  LkASr wrote:Next thing, I'd like to have Garuda to have armor penetration or armor protection vs aerial units, that way they can become true hard counter units vs aerial play (especially against helicopters) as most sapien units can mow them down easily. In general, I'd like to have the Khralean race as armor penetration specialist race, anyone agree?



All I'm saying is that outright... Garuda > helicopter when solely pitted against each other. Think about this.. if there was a match, 1 chopper against 1 Garuda, all the Garuda has to do is heal every turn and he wins. So 1 v1 Garuda > chopper, that does not mean I don't see your point. When in combat with multiple sap units, khrl player must exert him or herself much more than sap player. BUT iF there was a berserk feature that khrl players had access to that would boost khrl unit stats on top of current effect... I GUARANTEE Thad would even the odds... GUARANTEE!


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LkASr

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LkASr

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  cmbaptist wrote:
  LkASr wrote:Next thing, I'd like to have Garuda to have armor penetration or armor protection vs aerial units, that way they can become true hard counter units vs aerial play (especially against helicopters) as most sapien units can mow them down easily. In general, I'd like to have the Khralean race as armor penetration specialist race, anyone agree?



All I'm saying is that outright... Garuda > helicopter when solely pitted against each other. Think about this.. if there was a match, 1 chopper against 1 Garuda, all the Garuda has to do is heal every turn and he wins. So 1 v1 Garuda > chopper, that does not mean I don't see your point. When in combat with multiple sap units, khrl player must exert him or herself much more than sap player. BUT iF there was a berserk feature that khrl players had access to that would boost khrl unit stats on top of current effect... I GUARANTEE Thad would even the odds... GUARANTEE!



ye.. just think about how will this be fair vs Titans

Giving Garuda an armor penetration or armor protection vs aerial doesn't make it broken in a KvT match. Giving Khrals berserk means they can mow down Titan units like it was nothing, even if the new units are there. If the Titans would get Barrier as promised, this means that the Saps become underpowered, even if Siege is implemented. I wouldn't invest on stat boosting abilities in the long run.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 20, 2017 23:25


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volf

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volf

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Titans getting mowed down. Alright so the accusation against the boosted khraleans is that they would mow titans down. Lets examine this. Khraleans will still be weak in the beginning. Titan now has good range units of speeders and mantisse. As well as good anti aerial units like guardian and eclipse as well as mecha on good terrain. Also guardian destroys pinzer. Giving khralean a boost around mid game will not make khral slaughter titan as titan has every advantage on most maps. Only a few small maps where borfly is effective is this not the case. I feel like boosting khralean with plague can give khral at least a fighting chance. Or at least make them a threat if allowed to swarm and build up a massive army. Making them dangerous at some point is far better than laving them extremely weak to both races.
Zardecil

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Zardecil

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Khrals are supposed to feel swarmy right? They don't seem to be very good at it currently. They just feel unable to trade effectively with anything else.

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Michaelrn

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Michaelrn

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  volf wrote:Boosting Khraleans by adding to their stats could over power them. However, by introducing a boost via the plague would make it a tactical buff which would be a great balancing effect.


I don't think that giving raw status boost to Khraleans would necessarily make it overpower. If they really are generally weaker, then a status boost (as long as well executed) would first give it an edge to fight a fair battle.


Nerfing T and S blasters also can help K (not only K, but the overall balance of the game ). These blasters aren't only too much effective against tanks, but also very good against other unit types. They can hurt aerial units a lot.
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cmbaptist

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cmbaptist

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  Michaelrn wrote:
  volf wrote:Boosting Khraleans by adding to their stats could over power them. However, by introducing a boost via the plague would make it a tactical buff which would be a great balancing effect.


I don't think that giving raw status boost to Khraleans would necessarily make it overpower. If they really are generally weaker, then a status boost (as long as well executed) would first give it an edge to fight a fair battle.


Nerfing T and S blasters also can help K (not only K, but the overall balance of the game ). These blasters aren't only too much effective against tanks, but also very good against other unit types. They can hurt aerial units a lot.


That's right, the concept is so simple and yet still solves most all problems with Khralean being underpowered. I do think a duration of how long the effects should last would be in order since all you would have to do is place an infector beside the base you plan on building with and just spam "super saiyan" kral units . Either a turn duration of how long effects last or, have a cool down period on its usage.

Psalms 100:5 For the Lord is good; his mercy is everlasting; and his truth endureth to all generations.
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