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Sapiens Unit composition vs Khraleans
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dr. pepper

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dr. pepper

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Seems Sapiens unit composition is pretty limited vs Khraleans air army especially when there aren't forests and mountains for marines to use. It's pretty much copters + marauders.

Now that Bopper and Fuze's anti-air have both been nerfed down to 1, it doesn't leave many viable alternatives.

Anyone else frustrated by this?
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LkASr

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LkASr

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  dr. pepper wrote:Seems Sapiens unit composition is pretty limited vs Khraleans air army especially when there aren't forests and mountains for marines to use. It's pretty much copters + marauders.

Now that Bopper and Fuze's anti-air have both been nerfed down to 1, it doesn't leave many viable alternatives.

Anyone else frustrated by this?


You're missing out on the Marines

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dr. pepper

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dr. pepper

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  LkASr wrote:
  dr. pepper wrote:Seems Sapiens unit composition is pretty limited vs Khraleans air army especially when there aren't forests and mountains for marines to use. It's pretty much copters + marauders.

Now that Bopper and Fuze's anti-air have both been nerfed down to 1, it doesn't leave many viable alternatives.

Anyone else frustrated by this?


You're missing out on the Marines


Hmm, I mentioned marines. They're extremely powerful on forests and mountains. I'm talking about more open maps that have more plains, deserts, and swamps. It seems the Sapiens lack the variety of units to combat air. Take the Titans for example, who have several units that deal with air decently well (mecha, speeder, eclipse, guardian, plasma tank). I excluded the siege units and aquatic units as the Walker and Hydronaut deals with air just like the Battery and Destroyer does.

The Titans have two additional units (5-3 (including marines)) to deal with air the Sapiens do not have.

It seems to me that either the Bopper or Fuze should be able to do more air damage.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Feb 24, 2017 23:50

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LkASr

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LkASr

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  dr. pepper wrote:
  LkASr wrote:
  dr. pepper wrote:Seems Sapiens unit composition is pretty limited vs Khraleans air army especially when there aren't forests and mountains for marines to use. It's pretty much copters + marauders.

Now that Bopper and Fuze's anti-air have both been nerfed down to 1, it doesn't leave many viable alternatives.

Anyone else frustrated by this?


You're missing out on the Marines


Hmm, I mentioned marines. They're extremely powerful on forests and mountains. I'm talking about more open maps that have more plains, deserts, and swamps. It seems the Sapiens lack the variety of units to combat air. Take the Titans for example, who have several units that deal with air decently well (mecha, speeder, eclipse, guardian, plasma tank). I excluded the siege units and aquatic units as the Walker and Hydronaut deals with air just like the Battery and Destroyer does.

The Titans have two additional units (5-3 (including marines)) to deal with air the Sapiens do not have.

It seems to me that either the Bopper or Fuze should be able to do more air damage.


I agree with Fuze buff, but Marine on open ground is still pretty viable, tho more luck based. They're effective vs Swarmers and Borflies. I'd initiate them 1st (unless you have a Bopper with you) while you use the more expensive ones for gangup.

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dr. pepper

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dr. pepper

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You very well could be right about marines on non-forest and mountain tiles. My point was simply that Sapiens anti-air (even counting marines) options are limited compared to titans.
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LkASr

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LkASr

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  dr. pepper wrote:You very well could be right about marines on non-forest and mountain tiles. My point was simply that Sapiens anti-air (even counting marines) options are limited compared to titans.


I'd just use the mobility superiority the saps have over the Khrals, especially on Marauders

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dr. pepper

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dr. pepper

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Let me reiterate once again. I'm not saying sapiens are underpowered vs. Khraleans. I'm saying the matchup can feel a bit stale since you have a single unit composition to deal with air.
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simsverd

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simsverd

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  dr. pepper wrote:Let me reiterate once again. I'm not saying sapiens are underpowered vs. Khraleans. I'm saying the matchup can feel a bit stale since you have a single unit composition to deal with air.

what are you talking about? sap can fight air pretty well... marines, marauders, helicopter, battery (with move after attack), even opper still... all can fight air... i think you just need some more experiance.. sap dont have a problem with air like you describe

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dr. pepper

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dr. pepper

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  simsverd wrote:
  dr. pepper wrote:Let me reiterate once again. I'm not saying sapiens are underpowered vs. Khraleans. I'm saying the matchup can feel a bit stale since you have a single unit composition to deal with air.

what are you talking about? sap can fight air pretty well... marines, marauders, helicopter, battery (with move after attack), even opper still... all can fight air... i think you just need some more experiance.. sap dont have a problem with air like you describe


Did you read what I said? Because you're not addressing my point.
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LkASr

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LkASr

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  dr. pepper wrote:
  simsverd wrote:
  dr. pepper wrote:Let me reiterate once again. I'm not saying sapiens are underpowered vs. Khraleans. I'm saying the matchup can feel a bit stale since you have a single unit composition to deal with air.

what are you talking about? sap can fight air pretty well... marines, marauders, helicopter, battery (with move after attack), even opper still... all can fight air... i think you just need some more experiance.. sap dont have a problem with air like you describe


Did you read what I said? Because you're not addressing my point.



there's gonna be a aerial fighter plane the saps will have that takes the role, just wait

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Fleskimiso

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Fleskimiso

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Sapiens are weak against titans.
dr. pepper

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dr. pepper

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  LkASr wrote:
  dr. pepper wrote:
  simsverd wrote:
  dr. pepper wrote:Let me reiterate once again. I'm not saying sapiens are underpowered vs. Khraleans. I'm saying the matchup can feel a bit stale since you have a single unit composition to deal with air.

what are you talking about? sap can fight air pretty well... marines, marauders, helicopter, battery (with move after attack), even opper still... all can fight air... i think you just need some more experiance.. sap dont have a problem with air like you describe


Did you read what I said? Because you're not addressing my point.



there's gonna be a aerial fighter plane the saps will have that takes the role, just wait


I did hear through the grapevine there's going to be a new set of units that fill the anti-air role. I'm not sure Titans really need another anti-air unit. An air unit for the Titans would be nice though.

For those that were struggling to understand what I was getting at, here is my point. The section in parentheses is how the units perform vs. air. I performed comparisons by cost more than type. If the damage output differed by only one, I considered them to cancel each other out. I'm looking at the # of viable anti-air units and total amount of Anti-Air damage output.

Ground Light Mecha vs. Marine (cancel each other out)
Ground Light Guardian vs. Bopper (huge edge to Titans)
Amphibian Mantisse vs. Fuze (cancel each other out)
Ground Heavy Speeder vs. Marauder (cancel each other out)
Ground Heavy Eclipse vs. Tank (huge edge to Titans)
Ground Heavy vs. Aerial Plasma vs. Copter (edge to Sapiens)
Ground Heavy Walker vs. Battery (cancel each out out)

Titans have 6 viable anti-air options. Sapiens have 4. I'm excluding the Bopper, amphibian units, and the Tank.

In the two 'huge edge' cases, Tanks deal zero anti-air and Boppers do minimal damage. If they're on a mountain or forest, they do a little damage (Guardians get this same boost). In the single case the Saps have better anti-air, the Plasma still does decent anti-air damage. In three of the four cancel cases, Titans do more anti-air damage. I do realize some of that is partially due to the fact their units are more powerful and cost more.
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LkASr

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LkASr

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  dr. pepper wrote:I did hear through the grapevine there's going to be a new set of units that fill the anti-air role. I'm not sure Titans really need another anti-air unit. An air unit for the Titans would be nice though.

For those that were struggling to understand what I was getting at, here is my point. The section in parentheses is how the units perform vs. air. I performed comparisons by cost more than type. If the damage output differed by only one, I considered them to cancel each other out. I'm looking at the # of viable anti-air units and total amount of Anti-Air damage output.

Ground Light Mecha vs. Marine (cancel each other out)
Ground Light Guardian vs. Bopper (huge edge to Titans)
Amphibian Mantisse vs. Fuze (cancel each other out)
Ground Heavy Speeder vs. Marauder (cancel each other out)
Ground Heavy Eclipse vs. Tank (huge edge to Titans)
Ground Heavy vs. Aerial Plasma vs. Copter (edge to Sapiens)
Ground Heavy Walker vs. Battery (cancel each out out)

Titans have 6 viable anti-air options. Sapiens have 4. I'm excluding the Bopper, amphibian units, and the Tank.

In the two 'huge edge' cases, Tanks deal zero anti-air and Boppers do minimal damage. If they're on a mountain or forest, they do a little damage (Guardians get this same boost). In the single case the Saps have better anti-air, the Plasma still does decent anti-air damage. In three of the four cancel cases, Titans do more anti-air damage. I do realize some of that is partially due to the fact their units are more powerful and cost more.


Honestly, you'd only need a few units with some aerial powers, the reason why Titans have more AA powers is that they NEED those AA powers, otherwise they're sitting ducks bc they don't have aerial units of their own.

Saps don't need more AA power, otherwise the Khrals are good as dead. The difference is that Marines have more mobility than Mechas, Marauders can finish off a Khral aerial quicker or run away easier than Speeders, plus they have the Helicopter, and Boppers can just sit and relax on sniping them down without facing retaliation from Swarmers (which Guardians will have difficulties on, bc same range encounters). Using amphibious units on aerials can help, but not so much. It's all about how you use the Saps. It's how to use those units, not about their stats. Saps are very mobile, Titans are tanky, the Khrals face much more problems fighting against mobile units than tanky ones.

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keymaster2

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keymaster2

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sapiens aren't weak against titans!titans have a huge disadvantage as the engineer steals their mechas and disables their units.plus their mechas and assisimilator have terrible mobility while sapiens have high mobility,allowing them to capture bases quicker than titans
Capitan sangre

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Capitan sangre

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I agree S vs K matches had become really frustrating. Specially after recent buffs to wyrm. The marine, marauder and helicopter composition is easily defeated by salamander, swarmer, garuda, wyrms and buried underlings.
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