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Hawaiian
Messages: 6,
Joined: Aug 05, 2017,
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Hawaiian
Messages: 6,
Joined: Aug 05, 2017,
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Um, blasters (bopper, borfly, guardian) were introduced for breaking up turtling tactics. Have you noticed how long range they have? Previously only few special units had any range beyond melee and only artillery had more then 2 range. Then came blasters with up to 3 range and suddenly no tile is truly safe (they are also relatively cheap). This certainly broke plasma tank + walker turtling but I still find tanks viable in offense, you just need to think about supporting them. Actually tanks are support units now, they are mobile walls which deny movement to opponent and give friendly units some breathing room to recover.
I vote for adding a bit of mobility to plasma tank because it's really annoying to move them over a base now. I had a few 2v2 game where my base was next to a bridge and teammate couldn't move his tank while I was building units there. 6 mobility is really limiting, it confines a unit to 1 tile per turn in most cases, it could move 2 tiles but the slightest hint of difficult terrain brings it down to 1.
To me, what happened with the new tankbusters is that they became too good of a counter to tanks and also effective against everything else as well because they are ranged. In my mind the perfect anti-tank would be an expendable unit. For example, I had an idea for a tactical missile sapien unit. It only costs 150 credits (or maybe 200), but has the same attack strength and range as a bopper. The difference is that the missile would be expendable and gone after one use. Thus, it would be used to assist in taking down a tank for a cheaper credit cost, but in exchange for the cheaper cost be expendable and used only once. That, to me, would have offered lots of different strategies and still defeated the tanking problem. As of now, I think tanks are vastly underpowered and except for a few rare situations, actually obsolete. For titans, it's almost always better to use any units other than plasmas.
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Pero
Messages: 30,
Joined: Oct 31, 2017,
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Pero
Messages: 30,
Joined: Oct 31, 2017,
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Yeah I'm not fan of long range on blasters either. Nor I'm I convinced that armour piercing was needed at all but that's another story. Though I like how blasters made basic infantry and other cheap units more relevant. Your idea of expendable units is interesting. Here is another one: expendable munition. What if blasters had only one anti-tank shoot and when they spent it they'd attack without armour piercing bonuses until they got their munition replenished. This in turn could be either credit cost or starting a turn next to owned base (to discourage blasters camping 3 hexes away from enemy base).
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wookieontheweb
Messages: 485,
Joined: Jan 27, 2016,
Location: Southampton, UK
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wookieontheweb
Messages: 485,
Joined: Jan 27, 2016,
Location: Southampton, UK
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I do tend to agree mostly that tank busters are still too good. It feels wrong that borfly is better than swarmer as long as it has some defence. I have a few ideas to add:
- A limit on the bopper of say 3 shots then it reverted to being a normal marine. Borfly loses it's wings and becomes an ant. Etc
- A cool down of 1 turn between shots. They can still move and health but not attack/defend
- 25 credit increase in cost
- Tank busters -1 attack to aerial (or similar adjustment using armour piercing). I.e. why does bopper have 35% ap vs aerial?
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keymaster2
Messages: 53,
Joined: Mar 15, 2018,
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keymaster2
Messages: 53,
Joined: Mar 15, 2018,
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Although they are strong,there are parts of each unit which makes it bad.
-The bopper is only attack range 3 so its hard to position where it can hit an enemy unit
-The borfly can't attack after it moves making it hard to use when the enemy units are just out of range
-The guardian cannot repair so it useless at low health
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Indisguise
Messages: 9,
Joined: Apr 13, 2018,
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Indisguise
Messages: 9,
Joined: Apr 13, 2018,
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Think the simplest answer is best for plasma.
Increase its repair and/or GH.
Personally, I would love to see a 3 repair on it. I think that would really make people have to focus fire on it. And really worried about how they're going to deal with it. (Like with a helicopter and rough terrain. You know it's gonna be a headache :p )
Great job balance team ... but every now and again if you miss doing something 'too much' I think it'll be okay 
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wookieontheweb
Messages: 485,
Joined: Jan 27, 2016,
Location: Southampton, UK
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wookieontheweb
Messages: 485,
Joined: Jan 27, 2016,
Location: Southampton, UK
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The problem with increased repair is it reduces the unit variety between races. Also consider +3 repair on a health pad. I worry you would move them from a little too weak, to near impossible to remove. 1 tank should not be a wall.
Increase in defence for GH means that normal units can no longer touch them. As pointed out by some of the balance team in previous posts.
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Indisguise
Messages: 9,
Joined: Apr 13, 2018,
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Indisguise
Messages: 9,
Joined: Apr 13, 2018,
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Well. That's what I'm thinking. We can't increase Def, so if we really buff Repair significantly, yeah it becomes a Titan thing - but you know what... plasma becomes a thing again too. And you could probably justify leaving mobility 6 so with repair 3 you actually basically get BACK TO the Plasma being that iconic hulking defensive beast of olde.
Which I think is really cool, personally
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Apr 14, 2018 12:56
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axispanther
Messages: 5,
Joined: Apr 20, 2016,
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axispanther
Messages: 5,
Joined: Apr 20, 2016,
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wookieontheweb wrote:I do tend to agree mostly that tank busters are still too good. It feels wrong that borfly is better than swarmer as long as it has some defence.
I agree to that, regarding Borflys. In almost all my games vs K, great numbers of Borflys are built. Imho they are overpowered, especially when you are considering their low price of only 200. And the main anti air unit of Titans, the Eclips is useless vs Borflys. I suggest a price of 300 for Borflys
The bopper seams ok and the guardian ist even too weak for its high price. I build them only rarely and when I do, I mostly regret it, because they are so vulnerably and once they are hit, they are almost useless for the rest oft the game, because they cannot repair. My suggestion for guardian: Give it a heal of 1.
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caff
Messages: 4,
Joined: May 14, 2018,
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caff
Messages: 4,
Joined: May 14, 2018,
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if guardian had repair it would be way stronger and it would be even harder for khrals.Maybe reduce HG for borfly.They are overpowered but they are a pain as they cannot attack after move making them annoying to use and position.And an idea for players who need help with borfly,try to get your units out of its range and use units with range 1,4 and 5.Also if you have cities on a map close to a low health guardian just put it on a city.That would be a use for it
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at May 17, 2018 17:07
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