Swarmer Attack Power Increase

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Sep 18, 2009 08:51

Subject: Swarmer Attack Power Increase

aLoN

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Joined: Jun 12, 2009,
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Anonymous wrote:

aLoN wrote:ADH, just like i said to hachiman, invite me unrated on aLoN or rated on my other accounts Phingerz or 5M4LLD1CK, but please pick a well balanced map.

sorry for my english again.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was

So.... did you just admit to using multiple accounts? I can't imagine that the developers intended to be able to create trash account to boost your scores like that.

One could say that even though you only admit to having three accounts, that there are several more that you've since used to improve your PR.

why won't you submit a message with your real username..?
i use different accounts because of game limits and because i don't earn any points with "aLoN" playing people around 1800, and i like playing games without caring about my rank.

but feel free to invite me to some games and we will see if you are better then a "cheater".

hachiman, okay buddy i have already accepted but as titans, i just now read your message.

like i said there is maps for titans, sapiens, and khraleans.
you said swarmers spam is unstopble, i just wanted to prove it IS on some maps - not all.
it's like the walker is unstoble on big open maps, or the destroyer in the see.
i do agree that sapienas are the weakest race now on most maps, but it is much better then before when heli powned anything with 2repair bunus and his great attack and defence + the engineer against titans.
i think this game is more balanced then before though.
by the way don't say that i'm a better player then you, you play very well.

maybe a good thing for the devs to do is to set the ground heavy and arial attack of the swarmer to be the same as the maruder, what do you think?

Sep 18, 2009 15:07

Subject: Re:Swarmer Attack Power Increase

Hachiman

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Joined: Jun 25, 2009,
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Hey aLoN,

I agree with everything you say (except I'm definately not as good as you!). Good to have you on side.

I think they just need to make it so the Swarmer sucks vs SOMETHING the saps have, probably the Heli. You are right, it's more balanced than before, just needs a bit more tweaking....

Sep 19, 2009 05:49

Subject: Swarmer Attack Power Increase

Anonymous

I didn't think that this post would be so active when I ran into the Swarmer Spam.

I was thinking that the Sapiens need a unit that can also do a range attack. The helicopter would be a good candidate. In my opinion, the helicopter is very expensive for its combat capabilities when compared to the Garuda or 2 swarmers. If the helicopter was given an attack range of 2 and the defense strength lowered by 1, then the helicopter could fight the swarmer spam without becoming a unit to spam. The other possibility is to reduce the mobility from 12 to 10.

Sep 19, 2009 06:28

Subject: Swarmer Attack Power Increase

akumaextreme

Messages: 12,
Joined: Aug 22, 2009,
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To continue my thoughts on dealing with the Swarmer Spam and tweaking the Helicopter (thanks for the idea Hachiman), I'm going to compare the current Swarmer with my version of the Helicopter.

Cost
Helicopter: 500
Swarmer: 250

Attack Range
Helicopter: 2 Hex
Swarmer: 2 Hex

Attack Power (GL\GH\AE\AQ)
Helicopter: 12\7\9\8
Swarmer: 7\5\4\6

Defense Strength
Helicopter: 10
Swarmer: 5

Mobility
Helicopter: 10
Swarmer: 9

My version of the Helicopter can keep pace with the Swarmer, but not run all over the map. Also, it can now fight against 2 Swarmers, but it won't automatically win.

I have to admit that I need more time to think about how the increase of attack range would mean for Helicopters vs any Ground units.

Sep 19, 2009 12:17

Subject: Re:Swarmer Attack Power Increase

Star Driven

Messages: 55,
Joined: Aug 10, 2009,
Location: Somerset, MA
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The increase of range would most likely balance out Sap vs Khral, but that would cause Sap vs Sap (on a non-naval map) to be extremely dull. Since the marines wouldn't be able to hit back at the copters, they would be completely out of the picture, and it would be a simple heli-war. Same thing as Khral vs Khral swarmer spam.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 19, 2009 12:17

-= The UniWar Team =-

Sep 19, 2009 14:34

Subject: Swarmer Attack Power Increase

akumaextreme

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Joined: Aug 22, 2009,
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I wasn't thinking about Sapiens vs Sapiens. I'm more concerned with Helicopter vs Titans and Helicopter vs Khralean ground units.

I don't think that the extra range on the Helicopter would matter all that much since the Titan's have the Eclipse. Also, the fact that they cost about the same.

Sep 20, 2009 05:54

Subject: Swarmer Attack Power Increase

Hachiman

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Joined: Jun 25, 2009,
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It's an interesting idea, but I think adding range to the Heli is far too drastic a solution. It would make Heli's very powerful in a way that can't be accounted for in a numbers comparison. Just think - it'd be a flying unit with great attack stats that could damage most units without being damaged back, and a second move to boot. It would rule, and in a bad way.

If anything the Swarmers air (or ground heavy) attack should just be made to suck, so it isn't quite good against every land unit Saps have that can hurt it.

Sep 20, 2009 07:44

Subject: Swarmer Attack Power Increase

akumaextreme

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Joined: Aug 22, 2009,
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Good points Hachiman. I completely forgot about the Helicopter's special ability to move after an attack. The extra range would once again overpower the Helicopter.

I would like to see a Sapien unit to have an extra range. The high mobility of the Sapien race is very nice, but only useful on maps with plenty of open space. Of course, I'm not a master tactician so I'm saying it with modest level of experience.

The other possibility is to increase the Marauder's Attack Power against air units.

Sep 21, 2009 03:09

Subject: Swarmer Attack Power Increase

Hachiman

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Joined: Jun 25, 2009,
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I think the answer for Saps vs Swarmers Spam is to build lots of Marines, with either Heli's (or Marauders) as backup. aLoN is owning me with this tactic at the moment!

The Swarmers have to fire at the Marines (or get killed when two step forward and gang up) so the Heli's can attack, then retreat behind the Marines to repair and not get killed. Seems to work so far...

Sep 21, 2009 10:40

Subject: Swarmer Attack Power Increase

Anonymous

hachiman, that's the same strategy used before the swarmer light attack increase, so what's changed? the game is more balanced now than it's ever been.

Sep 21, 2009 11:54

Subject: Swarmer Attack Power Increase

Hachiman

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Joined: Jun 25, 2009,
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Anonymous wrote: hachiman, that's the same strategy used before the swarmer light attack increase, so what's changed? the game is more balanced now than it's ever been.

Perhaps not as much as I thought. I'm glad someone could finally show me otherwise

.

Before I was just used to Heli's AND Marauders AND Marines all owning Swarmers by themselves, so I never really encountered this tactic. I'm still testing it out some more.

To be fair I have won A LOT of games lately with spammed Swarmers (trying to see if they could be beaten by Saps), and this is the first I've lost.

I do agree that the game is lots better balanced than before, if not perfect.

[edit]

Of course on any map with enough income to build and screen them with Swarmers, Infectors will just capture the Marines and turn them against you anyway.

Is it just me or is it getting hard to get a 1v1 game vs anything but Khrals now? That indicates an imbalance to me....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Sep 24, 2009 01:29

Sep 25, 2009 19:35

Subject: Swarmer Attack Power Increase

akumaextreme

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Joined: Aug 22, 2009,
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Hachiman, you not the only one seeing nothing but Khralean players.

There is another tactic that Khralean players are now using. It's a Swarmer\Underling Spam attack. The Swarmers would pick off the soft targets and the Underlings would take on the harder targets with the resurfacing and gang up bonus. Throw in terrain bonus and you have a high attack unit that only cost you 100. I've lost Tanks to 2-3 Underling popping up from mountains or forests.

Sep 27, 2009 05:59

Subject: Swarmer Attack Power Increase

Hachiman

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Joined: Jun 25, 2009,
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akumaextreme wrote:
There is another tactic that Khralean players are now using. It's a Swarmer\Underling Spam attack. The Swarmers would pick off the soft targets and the Underlings would take on the harder targets with the resurfacing and gang up bonus. Throw in terrain bonus and you have a high attack unit that only cost you 100. I've lost Tanks to 2-3 Underling popping up from mountains or forests.

I don't really see anything wrong with Underlings ... that's how they should be used!

However the fact that Saps don't really have a (non naval) answer to Swarmers is a real problem. It's making 1v1 games kinda boring right now...

Sep 27, 2009 14:01

Subject: Swarmer Attack Power Increase

akumaextreme

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Joined: Aug 22, 2009,
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Hachiman wrote:
I don't really see anything wrong with Underlings ... that's how they should be used!

However the fact that Saps don't really have a (non naval) answer to Swarmers is a real problem. It's making 1v1 games kinda boring right now...

Oh no, I'm not saying that the tactic is unfair or anything. Just commenting on an emerging tactic that seems to be used against Sapien players trying to take on the Swarmers with forests and\or mountains to cover their approach. I'm wondering if the game developers are planning to do anything about it or just let us play the game until Uniwar 2 comes out.

Sep 27, 2009 20:53

Subject: Swarmer Attack Power Increase

Hachiman

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Joined: Jun 25, 2009,
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I demonstrated the problem as I see it in game to rolando and Kralux.

Dunno if they agree, or are going to do anything about it.

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