[Search] Search   [Recent Topics] Recent   [Hottest Topics] Hottest   [Login] Login
Battery Rush - Dead Monk
Forum Index » Sapiens
Solitary

Messages: 273,
Joined: Aug 24, 2010,
Offline

Solitary

Messages: 273,
Joined: Aug 24, 2010,
Offline
Okay, I'm posting this strategy up with a big question mark over it as I've been trialing this quite extensively and finding titans being able to rush me with accurate play. Titans vs sapiens is a horribly technical battle which is very tempo orientated and this strategy is an attempt to take advantage of this (limited) weakness of the titans. I'd also like to say before we start that this is the ONLY way I've found of battery rushing without potentially exposing yourself to counterattack so if you'd like to suggest a different sequence then please think carefully before you post. This guide comes courtesy of nfong who gave me some things to think about by stepping up to play me as titans!

(I didn't like the look of his strategy but failed horribly to counter it in game, I correctly saw tempo as a weakness and have been thinking a lot about how to accurately use this against titans as my record against titans is now 0-3 against anyone even close to my rating :o)

Round 1

Blue sapiens: capture the base immediately next to the marine and make a marine with your first move.

Red sapiens: capture the base immediately and do not make a marine (this marine is critical to observe the first move of red if you are playing as blue but if playing as red then blue will not have enough credits to come at you with a marine and plasma tank).

Red titans will either use their first move to make a mecha or not and blue titans are highly unlikely to make a mecha as this will delay their plasma tank by one turn.

Round 2

Blue sapiens: move your marine two hexagons to the right onto the nearby forest square as this will give you vision of the red starting base and forewarn you of any offbeat strategy with early speeders and also inform you if there is an early mecha etc. You will have 400 credits at this stage, end turn.

Red Sapiens: you will now have 600 credits, make a marauder in your starting base to gain vision of blue's starting base and anything nearby. If you see nothing then cancel the marauder and make a battery.

It is highly unlikely anyone who hasn't read this guide will be doing any kind of eclipse/speeder rush and hiding it out of vision. Even if players have read this guide then that strategy fails horribly against almost anything that isn't a battery rush as it pushes your first plasma tank to round 4 instead of round 2!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 02, 2010 07:53

Solitary

Messages: 273,
Joined: Aug 24, 2010,
Offline

Solitary

Messages: 273,
Joined: Aug 24, 2010,
Offline
Round 3

Blue sapiens: if red made a mecha then they will be moving it towards the middle, if they move it adjacent to the forest square then it is critical to attack it with the marine as you do not want to be trading hits with the mecha without terrain advantage. If there is no mecha in sight then move your marine 2 spaces so it is sitting on the upper part of the forest triangle. Use your 600 credits to make a battery in the lower base.

Red sapiens: move your battery adjacent to the upper base and the edge of the map as if the enemy plasma tank shows it's face you will then be exactly 4 hexagons away from it. This also hides the battery from vision if the tank enters your side of the map. Make two marines.

The marines in this strategy are based on a key discovery I made agaisnt nfong when I realised tanks do the same amount of damage to a marauder as they do to a marine, which is where the tempo gain becaomes dangerous.

Round 4

Blue sapiens: your continuation here will be dependant on how red plays but I'll throw out a few sequences which I think lead to at least equality for sapiens. If you are fighting a mecha then continue to do so and ensure your marine is on the forest square at the top of the triangle of green, then make two marines. Red at this stage only has 200 credits if they made a mecha and if they did not make a mecha then your marine will withstand 2 hits from the tank anyways, one tank + speeder is dubious.

If you see a mecha or speeder make two marines and move your tank to the hexagon one space to the left. If there is no mecha then you can get away with just one marine which will give you a second battery a turn earlier.

Red sapiens: if the plasma tank entered your position then you will have the luxury of it being by itself so all you will need to do is shoot it with the battery and put one marine directly in front of it and one on the right hexagon adjacent to the other marine. You will then have the option of gambling or playing safe. Blue will not have seen your battery on his invasion of your territory so you can in most cases get away with an engineer next as they will normally save for another tank or fast walker at this stage. If you are playing safe then make two marines and keep the meat shield up. As you gained one hit on the tank for "free" then blue will in almost every case just retreat the tank, as it will die if it stays.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Oct 02, 2010 05:35

Solitary

Messages: 273,
Joined: Aug 24, 2010,
Offline

Solitary

Messages: 273,
Joined: Aug 24, 2010,
Offline
Continuations from here depend on the direction titans take but it is all pretty obvious stuff. If they keep spamming tanks then make an engineer or two with some marines and try to get a second battery out as this will give you a very solid position if titans try to attack you. If they go speeders or eclipse to try and break into your position then make a tank with some more marines to keep them away from the battery, titans cannot force a win here.

In broad terms a titan player will rarely follow up their first tank with a speeder which is most dangerous against this strategy and due to the titans poor mobility and lower unit count, everything else gives equal chances for sapiens.

Any comments welcome .

EDIT: This strategy also has a flaw as red, if blue use 250 of their 400 credits to make an speeder on round 4 then they can break into your position although at that stage your battery is out of their vision so it's kind of a tough call. It might be playable as red xD.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at Oct 02, 2010 07:51

[Avatar]
nfong

Messages: 576,
Joined: Mar 07, 2010,
Location: where it's fun
Offline

[Avatar]
nfong

Messages: 576,
Joined: Mar 07, 2010,
Location: where it's fun
Offline
  Solitary wrote: (I didn't like the look of his strategy but failed horribly to counter it in game, I correctly saw tempo as a weakness and have been thinking a lot about how to accurately use this against titans as my record against titans is now 0-3 against anyone even close to my rating :o)


I'm offended...

I see a few flaws in your strategy but it's hard to explain...invite me later

As titans I like to make a few plasmas and some speeders...they easily counter any sap strategy
I think the reason you lost to me is because you made too many engineers and kept them unprotected...it would have been better to make 2 tanks and an engineer than 1 tank and 3 engineers, in your case.

When life gives you lemons...

"TAKE YOUR DAMN LEMONS BACK, LIFE. I DON'T WANT YOUR STINKIN' LEMONS."
Solitary

Messages: 273,
Joined: Aug 24, 2010,
Offline

Solitary

Messages: 273,
Joined: Aug 24, 2010,
Offline
When I tested it out I found you can actually break saps defences right at the start with a mecha and tank doing it the way I played against you, lol. The revised version here is in light of me realising tanks damage marines the same as they damage marauders which gives a far cheaper meat shield which I think was the mistake, rather than too many engineers the marauder and tank were the mistake xD. The engineers make it impossible for the tanks to rush sapiens but against that many tanks I should have just conceeded that there is no good rush if you fast tech battery and just tried to use the space advantage.

We'll see anyways, it's good fun playing a high ranked titan anyways and I finally found another one my own ranking who crushed me as well >.<.
Solitary

Messages: 273,
Joined: Aug 24, 2010,
Offline

Solitary

Messages: 273,
Joined: Aug 24, 2010,
Offline
I really can't find what you think is suspect in this strategy, I've tried loads of tank/speeder rushes and I can't find anything that survives against correct play by sapiens xD. It's a very borderline strat but 95% based on Nicko's chato hill strategy which has the same issue of requiring very precise play, but a failed rush loses the game instantly and not rushing I think gives a small advantage to sapiens.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 02, 2010 08:29

[Avatar]
nfong

Messages: 576,
Joined: Mar 07, 2010,
Location: where it's fun
Offline

[Avatar]
nfong

Messages: 576,
Joined: Mar 07, 2010,
Location: where it's fun
Offline
I think you're missing the point...
The marauder isn't there just for a meat shield, but it's also there to prevent the titan opponent from bringing out a walker too early. If you don't make any marauders, I'm going to bring out walkers after I make 2 tanks.

When life gives you lemons...

"TAKE YOUR DAMN LEMONS BACK, LIFE. I DON'T WANT YOUR STINKIN' LEMONS."
Solitary

Messages: 273,
Joined: Aug 24, 2010,
Offline

Solitary

Messages: 273,
Joined: Aug 24, 2010,
Offline
You have to make marauder if your opponent goes tank/speeder anyways as you can't defend a rush without it, so you kind of forced me to make one! Otherwise tank/speeder/speeder is winning xD. But lol, there was me thinking you'd actually seen a weakness in the build which surprised me as I did of a lot of research before saying it couldn't be rushed :o.

I don't think tank/tank/walker is a threat to this build, personally. If you disagree I'd like to see that proved wrong as I'm still very confused by this matchup!

EDIT: As in, I don't think tank/tank/walker is a threat without the speeder thrown in.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 02, 2010 20:36

[Avatar]
nfong

Messages: 576,
Joined: Mar 07, 2010,
Location: where it's fun
Offline

[Avatar]
nfong

Messages: 576,
Joined: Mar 07, 2010,
Location: where it's fun
Offline
I just believe that your strategy is way too slow. When I played tmort on this map with him as saps, he rushed me and totally annihilated me.

When life gives you lemons...

"TAKE YOUR DAMN LEMONS BACK, LIFE. I DON'T WANT YOUR STINKIN' LEMONS."
Solitary

Messages: 273,
Joined: Aug 24, 2010,
Offline

Solitary

Messages: 273,
Joined: Aug 24, 2010,
Offline
I can't work out a rush yet, but he is about double my ranking with over 3 times more games played than me so that could explain it :p. If I find one I'll be sure to test it out though!

EDIT: Can you pm me with a rough idea what he used and what you used please?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Oct 03, 2010 12:24

[Avatar]
nfong

Messages: 576,
Joined: Mar 07, 2010,
Location: where it's fun
Offline

[Avatar]
nfong

Messages: 576,
Joined: Mar 07, 2010,
Location: where it's fun
Offline
Well when I played him before I was pretty sucky...so this might not help xD
But this is what he did:
He made a maruader, two batteries, a tank, a marine, and he rushed me.
My mistake back then was after I made two tanks, I immediately proceeded to make a walker...so yeah xD

When life gives you lemons...

"TAKE YOUR DAMN LEMONS BACK, LIFE. I DON'T WANT YOUR STINKIN' LEMONS."
Hachiman

Messages: 118,
Joined: Jun 25, 2009,
Offline

Hachiman

Messages: 118,
Joined: Jun 25, 2009,
Offline
The problem with this strategy is that is a defensive strategy that presumes Titans will attack Sapiens.

On Dead Monk (and most other maps) Titan's dominant strategy is to slow the game down and play defensively until they can build up to protect walkers who will dominate anything Sapiens can bring late game.
Solitary

Messages: 273,
Joined: Aug 24, 2010,
Offline

Solitary

Messages: 273,
Joined: Aug 24, 2010,
Offline
I've just got my first kill with this strategy from some guy who went fast walker and rushed me with two tanks and a mecha xD. A key aspect of this strategy is that it's not as bad as it looks to someone who hasn't seen it before >.<. Yea, there's no way that rush wins against correct play nfong >.<. I've been trialing all sorts of rush builds against battery and the marauder just isn't strong enough to hold the choke by itself! Mecha/tank/tank even is enough to take out that build I think :\.

With marine being so cheap for holding the choke point as well then I'm playing around with putting the marine there as if I'm doing some battery rush and then spamming tanks if I see speeders. Round three speeder doesn't look so hot against two tanks and an engineer as it delays your second tank by two turns!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 04, 2010 21:20

Solitary

Messages: 273,
Joined: Aug 24, 2010,
Offline

Solitary

Messages: 273,
Joined: Aug 24, 2010,
Offline
Reading back on this now it's not 5am I just realised TmorT's "rush" is actually the same as this build only a little bit slower because you go marauder instead of marine xD. You got crushed for going dual tank then walker against a marauder and a battery, not because his build is better than mine!

I don't believe there is a strategy on dead monk that cannot be countered with the right build, especially saps vs titans. You won't find many titans going tank/speeder from seeing one marine though and I strongly believe you'd have found yourself on the back foot if I wasn't commited to testing my build out, and went dual tank instead of battery. Field of vision is also a critical part of the strategy and you'll find 90% of titans going plasma tank first and following up with a second because they have no clue what you're building.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Oct 05, 2010 11:15

[Avatar]
Nicko

Messages: 430,
Joined: Mar 07, 2010,
Location: Breda, The Netherlands
Offline

[Avatar]
Nicko

Messages: 430,
Joined: Mar 07, 2010,
Location: Breda, The Netherlands
Offline
You're welcome for the foundation, and thanks for clearing this all up . It was indeed quite messy with my posts. No offense but this strategy seems useless to me, but that's because I'm the one who came up with it (at least the one who talked about it)

"I hate the world's population, it's too large and getting larger. People need to slow down on the sex!"
-00101101

Wandering...
Forum Index » Sapiens
Powered by JForum 2.1.9 © - 2020-04-14 v124 - UniWar website