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Going 1st/2nd
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boourns

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boourns

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First post on here, but i have read (lurked) most of the forums already

I see several people making claims of an advantage of going 2nd on some maps, and i just can't see it. Personally, I play most of my games by hitting "start random game", which means i go 1st. So i don't know how much of a credit boost the 2nd player gets, maybe it is more substantial than i thought.

But the way I look at it if you go 1st you can still play as if you were 2nd. Just pretend that your 2nd turn is your 1st, and compare that to what the 2nd player gets (credits as well as starting unit position). So for instance on ChatoHill, i see claims that it isnt fair that 1st player cant move to capture the base while 2nd player can. But the 1st player is still ahead of the 2nd player on his 2nd turn compared to 2nd player's 1st turn. That's the inherent bonus that 1st player gets, and any turn based strategy game designer should be aware of this by giving 2nd player more resources, and better starting positions for units (if the game has starting units).
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nfong

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nfong

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The 2nd player gets twice as many credits as the 1st player. So on Chato Hill, the 2nd player is getting 4x as many credits than the 1st player, as it takes the 1st player an extra turn to capture a base.

When life gives you lemons...

"TAKE YOUR DAMN LEMONS BACK, LIFE. I DON'T WANT YOUR STINKIN' LEMONS."
Xenai

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Xenai

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Are you sure that's a hard rule? I believe on dead monk red gets 300 instead of 200, and on great wall gets 475 instead of 175.
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nfong

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nfong

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Yeah, it's a hard rule. I know for sure on deadmonk the 2nd player gets 400 credits. And it's the same for other maps...I believe. Thermo, x-island, sand castle, peanut isle...Those are the maps I play most often and they all follow that rule.

When life gives you lemons...

"TAKE YOUR DAMN LEMONS BACK, LIFE. I DON'T WANT YOUR STINKIN' LEMONS."
Xenai

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Xenai

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I'm probably wrong about dead monk, but I'm almost certain Great wall reds don't get double the blue.
mogrog

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mogrog

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That's because it's not twice as many credits as in double the starting amount, it's twice as many as in starting amount+2x the amount you get per turn (which varies on every map.)

Blue gets starting amount+1 turn's credits. Red gets starting amount +2 turn's credits, and can build a better initial unit, which matters some times.

Though blue can also safely pass on their initial build on some maps to build a better initial unit as well.
Xenai

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Xenai

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Ah, so basically starting credits+1 round's worth of credits, which makes sense.

Also, I believe the advantage of going first is entirely dependent on terrain. On a map with no terrain, going first or second wouldn't give one side the advantage (take chess as an example).
Solitary

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Solitary

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Also on chato hill, especially noticeable as khral against sap is that without that first capture you also can't spam underlings as effectively with blue as you're a base short and red will have a helicopter on your side of the map almost instantly. As red you can get an extra buried underling before your opponent starts harassing you with a helicopter. Things like that make a difference as well when it comes to going first or second. Montevideo you can cheese rush titans with a sapiens and a marauder if you go first and use the unit you're given to capture the naval base in the attack (this is dependant on them not quitting before turn 3, lol).

Small maps are very influenced by who goes first or second as getting on the terrain first is often critical, or getting the first attack in.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Dec 06, 2010 13:36

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