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UPDATE - New units !
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SCV

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The new tank-buster units from the livestream will require uni-coins right? I think this will give the game a pay-to-win feel unless the new units will come in a package of 3 (one per race), and it comes at a low price so that it can be realistically obtained through playing the game (like 100 uni-coins). Undoubtedly some players will wish to speed this up, so they will buy it. I don't know what you were planning, but these units would have to have some appearance in the offline portion of the game, along with the new tiles that were recently added.
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xavi

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xavi

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The new Tank Buster units stats (subject to change) can be checked here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EHJYGWLPbAWJTDej6L49TzpIkNm68hjZcoP1spqNga0/edit#gid=0

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SCV

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SCV

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how many uni-coins though?
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Michaelrn

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Michaelrn

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There will have a period to test and balance the new units before they are officially released?

It seems to me that they are too powerful with the current status.
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LkASr

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LkASr

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  Michaelrn wrote:There will have a period to test and balance the new units before they are officially released?

It seems to me that they are too powerful with the current status.


well, since they're ground light and only have 2 defense, zerg spam (your basic soldiers), anti infantry units (such as helicopters and fast units like marauder), or artillery will demolish them no matter what while being able to be worth the kill. Having paper defense would make sense as it forces you to be careful about your surroundings. their slow speed is pretty balanced as well they'd be much more used as defense and hard counters to tanks as speed can and will catch them off guard in a matter of secobds.

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Michaelrn

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  LkASr wrote:
  Michaelrn wrote:There will have a period to test and balance the new units before they are officially released?

It seems to me that they are too powerful with the current status.


well, since they're ground light and only have 2 defense, zerg spam (your basic soldiers), anti infantry units (such as helicopters and fast units like marauder), or artillery will demolish them no matter what while being able to be worth the kill. Having paper defense would make sense as it forces you to be careful about your surroundings. their slow speed is pretty balanced as well they'd be much more used as defense and hard counters to tanks as speed can and will catch them off guard in a matter of secobds.


But my point is that they are very cheap for all the huge status. Let's use the bopper for an example: he alone attacking (from distance) a plasma will cause about 5 damage (both standing on plains). If after that a speeder comes and hit bopper, both will cause about 9 damage to each other. Bopper will already have done it work with that huge damage to plasma. And it is cheap, so spend some credits on some marines to protect it. Don't forget it is light ground and can move to forest and mountains to become even more deadly. Remember that wyrm also moves just 2 tiles and and has a range of 1-3 but it is expensivier and still a very good unit.
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  LkASr wrote:
  Michaelrn wrote:There will have a period to test and balance the new units before they are officially released?

It seems to me that they are too powerful with the current status.


well, since they're ground light and only have 2 defense, zerg spam (your basic soldiers), anti infantry units (such as helicopters and fast units like marauder), or artillery will demolish them no matter what while being able to be worth the kill. Having paper defense would make sense as it forces you to be careful about your surroundings. their slow speed is pretty balanced as well they'd be much more used as defense and hard counters to tanks as speed can and will catch them off guard in a matter of secobds.


Okay but why on earth would you build a battery instead of 2 boppers? Name one example where that would be better.

The problem with these units as submitted is that their stats and cost are wildly out of sync with the current game.

Each race outperforms other units within the same race and or other races.


Bopper - strictly better than: battery, wyrm, from a cost effectiveness perspective probably walkers too. Trivializes plasmas tanks and pinzers, so the sapien strategy with this unit as debuted would be: build marines and boppers. Opp strategy: build marines.

Boarfly: who created these units, and did they even look at current stat lines? This unit would utterly wreck swarmers. Yeah they have that 2-3 range attack, but you can use the extra 50 creds / build to create an underling wall. Then just absolutely demolish swarmers with that 6 air attack.

The dragoon: same as the bopper mostly. Stay like is just unreal. The slightly reduced range is offset by the mobility 10.

The good news: this can all be fixed.

Some options:
Reduce the friggin stats, specifically by making these units true specialists. It's nice that their defenses are low, but they still appear to trade reasonably well with just about every unit type. HEAVILY Reduce their GLs, AERIAL, and AQ attack values. Reduce GH 1-3. Then you can keep the cost as is.

Alternatively, you could adjust the cost upward to around 500-700 depending on the unit.

Or make it so these units can't retaliate at all. That might work.

There's options. I have said before and I'll say again: since these are going to be paid units, I think it's important they stay more on the underpowered side to start with. I'm sure that the beta testing will help to vet these stat lines and or costs

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 28, 2016 03:12

mistercreepy

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Wait slow speed? Guardian has 10 mobility, that's 3 plains, or 2 plains & a forest / base. That's huge. Borfly is quite slow, mobility points of a Plasma tank, BUT it flies so it's pretty much always 2 hexes aside from a base. Bopper is probably functionally slowest at 7...same as a Mecha.

What is overpowered is the fact that they are all ranged. That's huge and I'm guessing they will all need to be nerfed a bit because of that. Free damage is a big deal.

I'm really excited actually...these will shake up the "typical" patterns of tactical responses and now you have to accurately predict & respond to your opponents builds. Maybe it will just turn to a new pattern of builds, for example maybe Titans need more Mechas to defend against Borflys. I dunno. Guess we will have to play & see!
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LkASr

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My opinion on unit changes:

Blaster (Bopper sucks):

-Greatly decrease Gl attack [8 -> 3], the big gun's good, but it's a waste if it's not used for anti infantry

-Decrease GH attack [14 -> 11] this thing whill wreck GH through gangup

-Greatly decrease Ae attack [7 -> 3] anti-air belongs to the battery and marine

-Increase Aq attack [10 -> 11]

- [Optional] increase mobility [7 -> 8]

I'd want Blaster to be deadly vs GH and Aq, not so much against others

Total cost: 300

Borfly:

- Decrease GH attack [12 -> 11]
- Increase Aq attack [8 -> 9]

Total cost: 250

Borfly's pretty solid imo, it'll get demolished by a group of Garudas and pretty much anything that can get close to (especially a random (pair of) Marauder that managed to get around and attacking it twice) while it goes toe to toe vs Swarmers, it's just the price is too cheap for is value)

Borfly looks like Skaarf from Vainglory

Guardian:

-Decrease GL attack [11 -> 10]
-Decrease Ae attack [8 -> 6]
-Increase Defense [4 -> 5]
-Increase Vision [2 -> 3]
-[Optional] Decrease mobility [10 -> 9]

Total Cost: 350

Guardian'a a pretty fine substitute for the Eclipse, that's all

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 28, 2016 04:26


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I favor keeping the costs but dropping all attack strengths greatly except versus ground heavy (a slight drop).

I do think that comparing the cost and stats of these units to eclipses and wyrms (the closest existing units) is fair.
mistercreepy

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Well regardless we really need to test them out first to see if they are balanced or not. I'm sure that Xavi didn't make these numbers up out of his butt, and surely there were alpha tests going on with a smaller group that isn't allowed to talk about it. Well - I sure hope that there were alpha tests first!
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Xavi which player from top30 in leaderboard is involved in customazing new units stats?
At this point all new units revealed yesterday are totaly unrealistic.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 28, 2016 06:54


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I don't know if this is an option, but....

Would it be at all possible to assign an attack bonus to the BLASTER units when attacking the TANK class units?

This would allow you to reduce the GH attack of the units, which really helps because a 14 GH on a 300 cost unit w a threat range of 5 means dead artillery / Walker / wyrm. It also makes these units trade pretty well with the 250 cost units.

This also, again, would specialize the class.

Since it would still be a cheap ranged unit, it would still see play too, I believe.

Here's the stat line I'm imagining for the bopper (that name is starting to grow on me, yeah ;p):

Range 1-3
GL 4
GH 7*
Aerial 3
Aq 10
Mobility 7
Cost 300

*double GH attack against tank, pinzer, or plasmatank

Or... a cooldown ability that adds to GH or just overall attack for the turn would be good. Like +4-7 to GH with a 2-3 turn cooldown would really force the player to choose their target wisely. I know it's more programming either way. Probably easier to just adjust the stats overall. Which I think means you probably want to start with GL 3, GH 9-11, aerial 2(gets 2 from terrain, plus gangup... it'll have play against air, aq 8-10 range .. then you can keep cost around 300....

btw I wanted to say I love the art work and overall design of the units. I am over the moon about these new units !! Can't wait and I am glad to know that they WILL get balanced eventually

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at Nov 28, 2016 09:18

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LkASr

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LkASr

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  Duaneski wrote:I don't know if this is an option, but....

Would it be at all possible to assign an attack bonus to the BLASTER units when attacking the TANK class units?

This would allow you to reduce the GH attack of the units, which really helps because a 14 GH on a 300 cost unit w a threat range of 5 means dead artillery / Walker / wyrm. It also makes these units trade pretty well with the 250 cost units.

This also, again, would specialize the class.

Since it would still be a cheap ranged unit, it would still see play too, I believe.

Here's the stat line I'm imagining for the bopper (that name is starting to grow on me, yeah ;p):

Range 1-3
GL 4
GH 7*
Aerial 3
Aq 10
Mobility 7
Cost 300

*double GH attack against tank, pinzer, or plasmatank

Or... a cooldown ability that adds to GH or just overall attack for the turn would be good. Like +4-7 to GH with a 2-3 turn cooldown would really force the player to choose their target wisely. I know it's more programming either way. Probably easier to just adjust the stats overall. Which I think means you probably want to start with GL 3, GH 9-11, aerial 2(gets 2 from terrain, plus gangup... it'll have play against air, aq 8-10 range .. then you can keep cost around 300....

btw I wanted to say I love the art work and overall design of the units. I am over the moon about these new units !! Can't wait and I am glad to know that they WILL get balanced eventually


There are 2 problems with that:

1. It's heavily complicated
2. Anti tank guns pretty much destroy vehicles armored or not, I'd keep some of the stats while buffing tanks, pinzers, and plasmas with better defense and mobility, which would make a unit triangle of Infantry > Anti Tank Gun > Tank >

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Nov 28, 2016 09:30


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LkASr

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LkASr

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there is another option, why not split their mobility in half and give it 2 actions/turn like a Marauder, but denying them to attack after move

I made a new tab under "New Units" in my Uniwar Race Sheet, here are my suggestions:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-SSwN8BR0u5VRT07TwOdOC1cnUBhEVc0dW-0nalz6QQ

This way, they wouldn't be able to be used easily. If you have any problems with it, let me know

Edit: Unit Stats updated, I decided to scrap the idea on the Guardian

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at Nov 28, 2016 10:37


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