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New Race Idea: Pyreans, Masters of Land and Air
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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  Apercent wrote:The slinger is op i say because it has
a) 1 point versus a plasma
b) 3 points versus a helicopter
c) 5 versus infantry

"But chad!", you say, pulling a random guy off the street and into your face,"Whats wrong with 1 point versus a plasma tank?",
Well it also has burst fire which means that it will end up doing +1 damage along with the original damage. So it would actually be more like this
a)2 points versus a plasma
b) 4 points versus a helicopter
c) 6 points versus infantry

In other words, that is NORMAL artillery stats for something that is normally priced for artillery...
but with a one to six range and the ability to move after attack! That is op.

In case you are wondering, I did make an imaginery unit calculator. It doesnt use percentages (unfortunately) but it should give you a pretty good idea of what kind of damage you should expect out of a unit
https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/98661096/


Bigger problem imo is the 7 unretaliated damage it deals to walkers...
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LkASr

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LkASr

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  Duaneski wrote:
  Apercent wrote:The slinger is op i say because it has
a) 1 point versus a plasma
b) 3 points versus a helicopter
c) 5 versus infantry

"But chad!", you say, pulling a random guy off the street and into your face,"Whats wrong with 1 point versus a plasma tank?",
Well it also has burst fire which means that it will end up doing +1 damage along with the original damage. So it would actually be more like this
a)2 points versus a plasma
b) 4 points versus a helicopter
c) 6 points versus infantry

In other words, that is NORMAL artillery stats for something that is normally priced for artillery...
but with a one to six range and the ability to move after attack! That is op.

In case you are wondering, I did make an imaginery unit calculator. It doesnt use percentages (unfortunately) but it should give you a pretty good idea of what kind of damage you should expect out of a unit
https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/98661096/


Bigger problem imo is the 7 unretaliated damage it deals to walkers...


that also happens on others, in this case:

Slinger > Walker > Battery > Wyrm
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LkASr

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LkASr

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so what do you guys suggest on the Slinger?

Quick note: Radiant and Burst Fires don't spread like Plague and also Slinger doesn't inflict burst fire anymore

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at Feb 21, 2016 18:33


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Apercent

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Apercent

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  LkASr wrote:so what do you guys suggest on the Slinger?

Quick note: Radiant and Burst Fires don't spread like Plague and also Slinger doesn't inflict burst fire anymore


A). Raised cost (by a lot)
Pros: keeps stats and range and speed
Cons-: used far less often
B) replace it's attack with burst fire
Pros: it can become cheaper, and not be a completely anti-walker/ wyrm/battery/tankbuster/knight that it is. Very unique. Still fast. Keeps range.
Cons-: no attack
C). Slightly increased cost, and it loses a lot of mobility. Somehow becomes slower than walker
Pros; can have even better stats or keep burst fire. Keeps range
Cons-: is going to be slow
D). Reduced range
Pros: can keep attack stats and speed
Cons-: has a smaller range
E). It needs one or more turns to charge after it attacks
Pros: keeps stats
Cons-: it will be a lot slower

Just some solutions...
Also, you could always get rid of a unit

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 21, 2016 20:30

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LkASr

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LkASr

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I got a better idea, if the Pyreans are to be included in the game, retain the current stats l, test it, and see how does it fare well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 21, 2016 20:37


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Apercent

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Apercent

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  LkASr wrote:I got a better idea, if the Pyreans are to be included in the game, retain the current stats l, test it, and see how does it fare well.


I've got a calculator... It ain't exactly good . it might work without the burst fire though. Also, maybe go the way of the tankbuster- and make it so that it can't hit aerial or g h
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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  LkASr wrote:I got a better idea, if the Pyreans are to be included in the game, retain the current stats l, test it, and see how does it fare well.


Well, i think each unit should have to Answer at least two questions:

1) is its cost and stats balanced within the current frame work of Uniwar?
2) what role does it play in its given race
3) does the units existence upset balance in some way ?

So if you're giving a unit a range of 5+, within the framework of Uniwar, it automatically has the potential to upset balance, given that the Titans race endgame is built around a unit with max 5 range. The slinger eliminates walkers from play, seriously makes them useless (much like batteries in SvT)... But of course T doesn't have the other end game tools that T has.

So that's where I see a potential problem w the slinger. Let alone the stats and cost. Keep in mind that Range itself is a PREMIUM stat. So expect to PAY for a range 6 attack. Let alone a range 1-6 unit. Given the trajectory of slinging stones, maybe range 5-6 or something would make sense, and be a way to reduce the effectiveness of the unit.

Aside from this, what is your races goal? Brick up and unload slingers ? Or do they play another role? If they play another role, do they really need a range of 6?

And one final note: the walkers 3-5 range and hydronauts 2-4 both come with that built in weakness of being totally vulnerable up close. Your unit lacks that, so that is another strength it has.

There are w lot of possible solutions. Like tons.

One I think could be interesting:

Make it a specialist unit: maybe it can attack just air and aquatic units. Or just GL units. You know limit it in some way. Either give it a very high stat in that category, and or multiple attacks. Depending on what you go with. Maybe give it say 3 attacks, a 6 GL, 2 GH, no air attack, and 8 aquatic. You could leave your 1-6 range. It would be very good against infantry, unable to dent a plasma sure, but still reasonably good against walkers (deal like 2/hit to a walker, so still 6 a turn, but wouldn't be able to hurt tank units).

Okay that's all I've got
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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Titans have no answer for this race at all

Gonna talk blaze terrors again.

Line 1 you have 3 magma golems. Line 2 you have 2 blaze terrors and a slinger.

End turn.

The Titan player is 5 hexes away. Choose any units on their side. How would you attack that setup as Titans?? I can't think of a way. Speeders useless. Eclipse can't engage the BT or slinger from that distance and would immediately get smashed by the golems. Walkers are useless because of slingers. Plasma tanks are a losing bet because if they move one space closer they get blown up by BTs.

Now if BTs did less damage and were far slower, plasmas could roll up slowly and have a chance. But that would require slingers not being able to really hurt them too.

Anyway, that's my issue

I said it before I'll say it again: I like the idea of this race, but I still see balance issues...... Which is okay if they're small, but I still view this is a huge issue
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LkASr

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LkASr

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Rebalancing Information: Slinger

-Unit cost is increased from 650 credits -> 750 credits

Reason: I find out that if the Atlantics have more expensive recon (not really) and tank, but cheaper artillely, Pyreans will have the opposite, Plus Atlantics are almost blind (average vision at 4, except for Crab Panzer and Battle Whale) which Pyreans would take advantage of (especially for Phoenix Rider and this)

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Apercent

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Apercent

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  LkASr wrote:Rebalancing Information: Slinger

-Unit cost is increased from 650 credits -> 750 credits

Reason: I find out that if the Atlantics have more expensive recon (not really) and tank, but cheaper artillely, Pyreans will have the opposite, Plus Atlantics are almost blind (average vision at 4, except for Crab Panzer and Battle Whale) which Pyreans would take advantage of (especially for Phoenix Rider and this)


Lol that's still not enough. Needs to be 850 at least, even with low stats
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LkASr

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LkASr

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Rebalancing Information: Slinger

-Minimum range is increased from 1 -> 2
-Unit no longer attacks after moving

+To compensate, Unit is given Move After Attack (by 3 movement)

*sigh*, If the slinger was to retain its previous stats, which units are needed to be nerfed?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at Feb 22, 2016 03:10


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Apercent

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Apercent

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  LkASr wrote:Rebalancing Information: Slinger

-Minimum range is increased from 1 -> 2
-Unit no longer attacks after moving

+To compensate, Unit is given Move After Attack (by 3 movement)

*sigh*, If the slinger was to retain its previous stats, which units are needed to be nerfed?


The slinger is simply put, a kind of op unit because it has a 4 tile range. No other unit in uniwar has a greater than 3 range. This unit has a full on 5 range. Before, it had 6! It's going to need to cost a lot of Money to become fair at its stats
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Duaneski

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Duaneski

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  LkASr wrote:Rebalancing Information: Slinger

-Minimum range is increased from 1 -> 2
-Unit no longer attacks after moving

+To compensate, Unit is given Move After Attack (by 3 movement)

*sigh*, If the slinger was to retain its previous stats, which units are needed to be nerfed?


I like these changes. I think going 3-6 or 4-6 on range would make sense still. But that helps to at least give it that vulnerability. More importantly, not being able to move and attack was a needed change.

This unit right now is exceptionally good at two things:
1) killing artillery units
2) killing boats.

If that's what you want it to do, then spot on. if not, then adjustments are needed.

It can still do spot damage (it's equal to helicopter GH) to tanks .. So it isn't useless there.

It is still an extremely strong unit, almost certainly more effective than walkers. For that reason, I think a cost increase to 800-850 might be in order. But it is certainly a lot closer with these changes.

And again, I've still got beef with the blaze terrors
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LkASr

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LkASr

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Rebalancing Information: Blaze Terror

-Unit cost is increased from 150 credits -> 200 credits
-Mobility is decreased from 15 -> 13

Ok, I'm making my stand on the current stats for Slinger, to make things not as "op", I nerfed Blaze Terror instead

Never surrender when you still have the chance.
"I have achieved navel superiority" -myself 2017
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LkASr

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LkASr

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btw, you guys haven't paid attention to the Atlantics and if you were to play against Pyreans and in a bad situation, blame the Blaze Terrors

Never surrender when you still have the chance.
"I have achieved navel superiority" -myself 2017
All the good stuff [WoT Generals Beta Tester, Uniwar Beta Tester, Vainglory Hero Suggestions List Contributor]
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