| Author |
Message |
|
|
|
Wraithunter wrote: Missiles arent smart early on as they can get easily rushed. But as sap I only need to turtle with tanks and wait for a proper wall to stand. After the wall is complete speeders wont be so good since my missiles are well protected. Plasma tank wall collapses because 2 missiles (400 creds) will reduce the plasma tank to very low HP which the tank wall will easily finish it off. Eclipses cant do much because tanks shred them with ease. I'm not good as a titan player and there might be something I've missed to counter a tank wall backed up with engs and missiles.
If there isnt Sap-Titan combat will be reduced to an artillery game where both players turtle and shoot each other with missiles and walkers.
There might be a mistake to what I've said and correct me if I;m wrong but this is how I see missiles right now. Perhaps you could change my mind in any way?
In essence, titan vs. saps is already an artillery game. Saps need to get out artillery early and try to prevent titans from putting up a strong wall, of which if they do, titans will win because walkers will then outrange the sapien player and overpower him.
I am a very good titan player, and if a sapien turtles against a titan, he is playing incorrectly and will lose to a good titan player. I can show you in a game if you like. Walkers outrange all other units, and the titan player walls until he can outrange his opponent safely.
If you spend 400 credits on tactical missiles to heavily damage a 500 credit plasma, you have only gained a 100 credit advantage if you finally kill the plasma thereafter with one of your own tanks. Doesn't really seem overpowered, especially considering that having 2 missiles (400 credits) means you have one less tank (400 credits) on the field.
If this could be playtested I really think people would realize how not overpowered it is. It is not a unit that can attack over and over again. It is a 200 credit loss every time it's used and then it's gone. I envision that a smart sapien would build maybe one early, then maybe two or more in a late game stalemate. It is a great unit to prevent stalemating.
|
|
|
Perhaps a range of 2 for devour. I don't know, it seems like a pinzer who can advance and devour would be pretty deadly against swarmers. Devouring a garuda would be more risky since it would take 8 health of the pinzer, thus I could see it being more defensive.
But yes, perhaps 2 range for devour would be appropriate since it can move and devour.
I wish we could playtest this!
|
|
|
Wraithunter:
Here's why I love the tactical missile idea.
VS. Speeders
First of all, mass speeders is overpowered against sapiens right now. A tactical missile will do about 6 damage to a speeder. Now a follow up with a marauder using gangup will do about 3, and occasionally 4 damage. Thus, sometimes the marauder will be able to kill and retreat, other times it can bring speeder to 1 HP and then retreat, or stay there and kill the speeder, (leaving it vulnerable to counter attack, as marauders are paper defense)
The net gain? Only 50 credits. You spent 200 credits on an expendable missile and killed a 250 credit unit. Perfect in my book!
OVERPOWERED?
I don't think so. If anything I am thinking an increase to ground light damage might even be justified. Think about it, if you spend a 200 credit unit to kill a 100 credit enemy infantry, you have lost 100 credits compared to the enemy. So it would only be worth it to save a base steal. Which is great and strategic! You must lose 100 credits (compared to the enemy), but you have saved your base from a steal. So you can only use such a strategy for so long before you are suffering in increasing comparative credit losses.
|
|
|
|
Yes, as you are saying is how I posted it. The pinzer cannot devour the aerial unit if it doesn't have sufficient HP.
|
|
|
|
That is a pretty sweet graphic! Nice!
|
|
|
Talone, I bet if you were allowed to playtest this you would like it! Think about it, every two missiles on the field is one less tank on the field. So it's not overpowered in that way. Plus, it's expendable, so you shouldn't use it unless you are SURE you can make the kill. If you use two missiles on a plasma tank to take it down (you would still also need the help of at least one tank in this situation), you have still expended 400 credits to take down a 500 credit unit. So it is only a +100 credit advantage at that point, not really overpowered if you think about it! Plus, mobility and safety issues keep it balanced because the missiles are defenseless.
I really think you'd like it if you got to play with it. The way tactical missiles work is that they would provide strategic situations to gain very small credit advantages, since they are totally expended and lost when used. Runiwarriors everywhere would really benefit! 
|
|
|
There's a few changes I'd like to see for Khrals, but one idea I've had for awhile I think would add great strategic depth and change Khral vs. Khral matchups from being so swarmer heavy.
New Pinzer ability: "DEVOUR air unit", cooldown of 7 turns or so.
The cost of this ability is actual HP from the Pinzer in the amount of the defense rating of the victim. If the pinzer does not have sufficient hit points, it cannot devour the air unit. In addition, if DEVOUR costs the exact remaining HP of the pinzer, the pinzer dies in the process.
a. Swarmer devour cost: 5 HP
b. Garuda devour cost: 8 HP
c. Chopper devour cost: 10 HP (kills pinzer) (good trade of +50 credits in khral favor)
This will make matchups far more interesting, especially khral vs. khral.
|
|
|
I know there are a few threads on balance and units, but I wanted to discuss a couple ideas of mine that I have formulated and tested in my mind.
I would like to discuss the addition of a new Sapien unit:
TACTICAL MISSILE: This unit would be a new type of unit to Uniwar in that it is expendable. Once it's used, it's gone. With gangup and smart tactics you can gain in credit trades incrementally with this unit.
Stats:
a. Range 2-3; move 1 space anywhere except mountains and sea; can move and fire
b. Attack: GH: 10; GL: 5; Air: 8;
c. Credits: 200
Matchup vs. speeder: you can hit a speeder and have a good chance of finishing it off with a marauder thereafter because of gangup if marauder uses both moves to attack. Tank follow up will mostly guarantee the death of the speeder. Mass speeders is a difficult thing for sapiens to handle right now, and this should help without being overpowered against it. Trade is +50 credits in sapien favor, which seems a fair trade.
Matchup vs. Plasma Tank: 2-3 damage at a cost of 200 credits. Protects your tanks as they follow up for the kill. Trade is +300 credits in sapien favor and paper tanks don't sustain as much damage during plasma kill. This should really help sapiens attack a titan front wall that has built up over time and become impenetrable.
Matchup vs. Garuda: this missile can be used to soften garudas for an easy kill. The trade is +150 credits in sapien favor and only about 2-3 hp cost to the chopper.
Matchup vs. swarmer it is a +50 credit trade to soften up swarmers for the easy kll.
Matchup vs. infestor: 2 rockets can get rid of a pesky infestor at a credit trade of -100. This seems a fair strategic price.
Matchup vs. chopper: against chopper it will do about 3-4 damage and allow follow up choppers to sustain less damage for the final kill. Now Sapien battles will have more options than mass choppers as well.
I'd also like to discuss a new sapien ability: NITRO for marauders.
Marauders get a cooldown ability called nitro which grants them a third move with 6 movement or so. This will allow them to get behind enemy lines and hit weak ranged units. Once they're behind enemy lines they're dead, so I think it's a fair trade. For example, a marauder can do about 5 damage to a walker, but sacrifice its 250 credits for that cause. Seems fair to me.
Also, nitro can be used in conjunction with tactical missiles to make a hole in a titan wall to shoot through.
|
|
|
|
I am still dreaming about a cooldown marauder ability Nitro. Every game I play against Titans as Saps I can see where marauders would actually be useful! Right now, they're almost worthless against Titans because of strong speeders and plasmas. But if the marauder could employ Nitro, which would give it a third move of 6 or 7 points, they could basically sacrifice themselves to get in and hit a walker. And I think it's a fair trade. A full strength marauder will only do 4-5 dam on average to a walker. So it's trading 250 credits (because that marauder will be destroyed) for 375 temporary credits of damage to the walker line. It could help protect your paper tanks from that plasma wall. I just think marauders need more utiility against Titans, and this is a way to do it without making tanks too much like pinzers.
|
|
|
By the way regarding sapiens engineer mobility increase: NO!!!
Just buffing their movement to 7 will mean that titan mechas will never be able to even come close through terrain to sapiens, because engineers will literally be able to chase them down. Adding that one point of movement will make a HUGE difference and shouldn't be done.
|
|
|
Helping Titans
First of all, the recent buff to speeder mobility was a GREAT change. They still need more, and here's what I think:
- Buff the eclipse to make it more useful. I like removal of terrain penalties OR increased healing rate for the eclipse. Infantry in terrain will still do 2-3 damage regularly to an eclipse, so eclipses will still get ripped up very easily in terrain even without terrain penalties. Making one of these buffs would just help make eclipses become more versatile. Currently, they get hurt by even a little infantry and become useless, because low hit points make them harmless. People complain about paper tanks dying so quickly, but eclipses are the same cost and even easier to rape.
- I think that assimilator mobility should be increased to 7. Part of titan's weakness is slow healing and not being able to defend buried underlings well. Having assimilators navigate terrain better to get to healing locations and react to popup ants more effectively would be a good move.
- How about UV simply revealing buried underlings too? This would be good in large open areas where moving forward into a trap could be avoided. But it could also be useful in times when you already know where the buried ants are, you just can't remember how many hit points they have. You can see where real threats are and plan accordingly.
|
|
|
It's understandable that there is concern in the community about changes, but rest at ease everybody! Now is the time to go out and playtest these changes and post your specific experiences and feedback. All balance changes are only theory in the beginning. Rest assured the best balance change will prevail. If the changes are in error, they will be reverted. However, try them with an open mind and post your experiences so everyone can test them too!
|
|
|
|
You can invite me to a game as well. This really isn't difficult to defend against. I'll demonstrate if you want.
|
|
|
|
a future patch will fix this issue. sorry, but for now you just have to do as the previous post suggests.
|
|
|
|
that's awesome. yes, that's another good example of complete surrounding walkers. it's true, the usual effect of a proper warp-in is still usually close to break even in credit swap, but the disruption is where the advantage comes to the warp-in player. i suppose it's balanced then haha. but definitely only useful for advanced players!!
|
![[Search]](/templates/default/images/icon_mini_search.gif){kind=icon}
![[Recent Topics]](/templates/default/images/icon_mini_recentTopics.gif){kind=icon}
![[Login]](/templates/default/images/icon_mini_login.gif){kind=icon}
Login
