| Author |
Message |
|
|
Do you even listen to what you're saying xD.
Players aren't likely to join a map they have no understanding of so map selection is an option for both sides whether joining or hosting as you can see the map you're going to play on before you pick out the game. What I'm saying on a pretty basic level is that your suggested change is pointless >.<. If people don't start the game off then just delete the game as the results won't change either way whether you make your first move or not if they're not going to respond to it, surely?
|
|
|
|
Or if you have maybe only one swarmer sniping at weakened marines from behind the front line it works quite nicely as well but you'll never get good value out of them if you mass them xD. Personally I'd like to see swarmer cheaper or with better ground light attack as there's so much terrain on every single map that they don't really do anything atm, I hit a marine for 4 damage the other day with a swarmer. With results like that coming in because of terrain you may as well just make ants to deal with marines in most cases, as at least when they get mowed down by helicopters you haven't lost a fortune in credits as well :o.
|
|
|
|
Are you talking about FFA strategy? If you get ganged up on you'll lose your base whatever you do, in a team game you should be able to hold your base with correct play from everyone. There's no race which can hold against against 2 players ganging up on them in the middle on full planet!
|
|
|
|
This strategy is basically just marines, the reason you make helicopter first is so you can snipe at early ants and swarmers for free if you see them xD.
|
|
|
Titans pretty much win on dead monk but try a conga line of marines down the mountains and work in a marauder or to to delay walker and then a battery (depending on what titans build). Move the battery down to the lower forest tile near your base so it's targetting the lower base of titans and just keep sending marines in a line down the mountains xD. I'm not convinced on the power of this strategy but it forces titan to deviate from the mass speeders and having a battery aimed at their base puts a lot of pressure on the titan defense. I often go 3-4 turns with this strategy before I build anything other than a single marine in the lower base as it helps you counter them once they have a few units in play.
I've had wins with it before anyways but you need to remember to adjust your build depending on their reaction to it.
|
|
|
Ermmmm, did you read all of that or did you get bored halfway down? I think khral have an edge against titan currently although it's not as drastic as other matchups but if my suggested change of lowered infector cost went through then the matchup would become more imbalanced, unless something went through to offset it.
I also think the whole big map/small map thing is one of the reasons why it's so hard to balance the game.
|
|
|
The host doesn't choose the configuration, they choose the map xD. I know people who rating inflate by just picking whichever matchup favours them best on imbalanced maps but on a basic level it's true, you can choose race when you go second with knowledge of what the other player is. For example if you never wanted to lose on dead monk just go second and pick saps if you see khrals, titans if you see saps and khrals if you see titans.
Unless the map is really small going first isn't an advantage at all and it would make rating farming on three minute games too easy if the host went second.
|
|
|
Map balance is complicated but in broad terms there is an "ideal" size and amount of terrain and whilst it seems inevitable to have some imbalances it's also easy to identify huge general flaws in map design. If a standard amount of terrain/choke/whatever was taken as a set of guidelines for map design then it would make the issue of balance easier rather than the current setup, which is horrible. The differences between the maps are so huge that it seems impossible to avoid map imbalance at some point because you can't adjust the race stats to allow both jungle and thermopyle to be balanced at the same time, for example.
I'm on holiday for a few days anyways which is why I cleared my current game list out but I will be back soon to continue the discussion xD.
|
|
|
Hi again  . Okay, the reason I suggested putting marine AA back up is because lowering infector cost is a HUGE change as far as power goes in that matchup. Marine spam would be far higher risk if there were more infectors around to take control of them and I think saps need something to offset that if that change were to be implemented, otherwise I believe the balance would be pushed in favour of khral.
I suggested battery power for saps vs titan as well as map tweaking because on most maps then pushes with mass batteries and a marine/engineer/marauder meatshield seems to be most effective, given the lack of mobility of tanks. Going tank/engineer against titan is like going pinzer/infector as khral against saps, sure it looks okay because it takes a while for you to get run over but because it has no offensive power or mobility then you're literally just running the clock down. Battery def was my idea for allowing more batteries to survive the intitial push and go back for repair rather than everything getting mopped up by one walker hit each then 2 UV blasts to finish. Don't think the matchup is hugely imbalanced but it needs something, I've also considered 1 def point for engineers.
The khral/titan matchup would be influenced by my balance tweak for sap/khral and I suggested the nerf of ninjalings (plus little extra ways of damaging them) and slightly reduced eclipse cost because it would allow titan players to more easily one-shot the infectors with eclipse without it dying (obviously it's always at risk but currently two buried ants can kill an eclipse). At worst they'd be easier to mass to get hits in on the infectors which would be far more commonplace. In any case I don't think my suggestion for reducing infector cost could be implemented without altering the matchup vs titans as well, and eclipse I thought was a good answer to healing units.
|
|
|
On a very basic level the problem with khral against sap on close or terrain heavy maps is not being able to infect marines because your infector will just get mowed down in seconds. Mecha own marines but you can't rush a sap like that because of engineers and likewise ants own mecha with resurface bonus (and much better mobility for gang up bonus), but you need to be careful of assimilator so you also can't just charge in on the surface. Not having that restriction with marines against ants means saps can just pile in with marines and I'm not getting into the pinzer debate, short of the following comment. Apart from pinzers getting trashed by helis without being able to fight back there's also a mobility issue with pinzers which allows saps to threaten multiple bases with multiple helis, while you're stuck with one pinzer defending each base. Maps with a choke don't work much better as helis plus marines on terrain will wipe out pinzers without breaking a sweat anyways.
Personally I think adding a special ability for marines would potentially create imbalances elsewhere as it's a complicated adjustment, and against the original theory behind the races.
|
|
|
|
I played him once already and was going to rematch with reverse race as I think he was a little shocked by the manner of his defeat, but he forgot what race I was and didn't remake after I abandonned xD.
|
|
|
|
Yea, no-one seems interested in it so I left it xD.
|
|
|
And it doesn't stop you just getting run over because nothing you build has any def until you're spending 350 credits a time. On most maps saps can just get their hands on khral too early and two AA for underling wouldn't prevent that as they'd still take 8 damage from heli and then get finished off by marine losing 2hp xD. Base proximity obviously a factor as well but then if you put them too far apart there's the problem you just mentioned of resurface and terrain bonus pushing things too far the other way.
I like cheap infector for simplicity as you take khral vs titans and titans vs saps and in both cases they have to keep their distance with infantry units, saps can do what like with their infantry because infector costs too much (once you factor that it needs protection from the heli so you're losing units before you even get this expensive unit into play).
|
|
|
Intelligent discussion is always welcome anyways, I wasn't trying to discourage posts from that but I see posts all the time about balance with just flat out stupid ideas in them and it gets off topic. UV and smash damage by themselves wouldn't be that big a difference but if you imagine all things together chipping away at buried underlings along with reduced resurface bonus then it would make things far more managable for titans. The reason I suggested cheaper infector rather than better is because it's just too expensive for a non combat unit, considering how expensive everything else is as well. A cheaper eclipse was in my titan suggestions because they can one shot infectors and help control them in titan vs khral, but with the power of buried ants are also not too cost effective. I figured all those little things together should help to keep the swarm under control though.
The reason sap vs khral is more imbalanced than the other two imbalanced matchups is because you can't control the marines when the bases are close together, as all khral units are too expensive. I considered 2 ariel attack for underling as well tbh and it's not a bad idea but I don't think it addresses the biggest problem which is just not being able to get started with khral on most maps vs sapiens.
I've been looking at other maps and dead monk also needs to be slightly larger I think, just by one tile. Another key issue favouring saps who can just spam marines is when your marine never has to not be on terrain or a base. They jump straight onto the central forested area and can walk there in two more turns to be within capturing range of the lower base and still on a forest tile. If the bases were one space back then marines would either be hiking over the mountains or potentially exposed to swarmers when not on terrain! In broad terms I had a lot of ideas for map modifications generally involving reducing terrain and standardising size a little more as the largest and smallest maps both tend to imbalance certain matchups.
|
|
|
Wyrm rush is a very technical build and hard to pull off xD. In most cases if you just charge in blindly with the helicopter and some marines you'll probably kill it unless the opponent has very good control and no bad combat results. Just make sure you stall the helicopter attack by one turn until you've got marines on the way in as well, and pay attention to what the enemy is spending.
I don't want anyone to think wyrm rush is an easy answer because it's not, I just haven't found any other way to win with khral on dead monk even with the marine nerf.
|
![[Search]](/templates/default/images/icon_mini_search.gif){kind=icon}
![[Recent Topics]](/templates/default/images/icon_mini_recentTopics.gif){kind=icon}
![[Login]](/templates/default/images/icon_mini_login.gif){kind=icon}
Login
