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 indeed. vengeance is best served methodically. 
seems already updated in-game (they can do that from server side?) Surfacing underling on plains vs. assimilator on base... -8. 
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There was an in-game message to that effect, resurface bonus from 6 to 4 to support or improve (can't remember the wording) game balance.
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and a binary cheer was rapidly circulated across the Titan comm-net.
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regarding hydro/eclipse/mecha combo above, let's say hypothetically you're at 2 eclipse + 1 hydro when Khral has 1 levi plus 3 garuda, seems easy for Khral to take out the hydro with 2 Garuda and 1 Levi and you can only eliminate one Garuda in response. So Khral banks material advantage, is in range of shutting down further hydro production etc.?
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Well good, given that's what I thought and the path I'm on.  Just not clear to me how much of an advantage really, as the hydro acts more like a walker huddled for safety on the coast, vs. Khral combined aerial and naval that is more free to move and surround you etc. Guess I'll find out.
For pure naval maps like Naval War (or whichever the one is with one hex strip of land around the ocean), doesn't seem like there's enough coast for this plan though...
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I hate Swarmer spam. Makes the game lame. But anonymous is correct that it works. I thought Garuda with 9 aerial would be an answer and they aren't in general (vs. swarms, individually they're still great. # of bases and credits/base therefore impacts this a lot as well... small credits/turn can still mean Garuda are stronger.)
Khral vs. Khral seems most awful of all the largely ugly Khral/Sap matchups. IMO matchups involving Titans are more likely to be interesting strategically vs. just tactically complex, including being more likely to reward good use of many different unit types, whichever side you play.
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Started playing a bit again, at least over the holiday break. (popped over 2K at the moment, woohoo...)
This thing about Titans being strong on water keeps coming up. E.g. a higher ranked player mentioning today that Titans destroy Khrals on Piriapolis (which I assume was based on water factor or I don't know what else it would be), nfong still advocates this I believe, it came up in the thread about iluvkim running a Montevideo Khral racket etc.
I still haven't played that many games total compared to many, but I really don't see this Titan advantage and would love to understand the claim better. It sure seems like for the Khral matchup in particular, Garuda trump Hydronauts. That's been my experience in a couple of games as Titans against Khral spam and in a couple of games as Khral against Titans (don't think I've ever lost playing that side of the matchup actually...)
Just experimentally, if you run a test of 2 Garuda (700 pts) vs. one Naut (800), it's easy slaughter for the Garuda. Correct? Even in larger battles with reduced gangup, e.g. 6 Garuda vs. 3 Hydronauts on Piriapolis (or 9 Garuda vs. 4 Nauts), whether you try 'eliminate' or 'weaken all' targeting, and always giving the Nauts first shot, they lose pretty decisively. Any terrain tends to play to Garuda benefit. What am I missing?
Curious to hear from experienced players even if it's a 'yup', 'nope' or 'dunno'...
Assuming this is true, in general it would mean maps with significant water just add a little to Khral advantage (or at worst are neutral), as Titan land units are more restricted and aerial units can be massed around them creating larger combinations of attack options including exposing ants etc. Which is basically the Montevideo story.
My belief at this point as far as Khral vs. Titans goes, is that Khrals probably win everywhere, with varying levels of difficulty, with a Titans best chance more likely on an open (plains-heavy) map such as Desolate for maximal Speeder and Eclipse mobility and defense strength (there may be some clear opening vulnerability to Khral on that particular map that I don't know about...)
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yessir, iPhone. Do we know if the new damage predictor gives a range (e.g. 5-7), an estimate or what? I assume it doesn't pre-calculate the damage, that would be weird.
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oh where in game is that +2 reference? just checked and couldn't see it. That would be in addition to +2 on base? That might be more consistent with what I saw (e.g. I couldn't get a wyrm and swarmer to stop a mecha capture on now 4 tries. that normal? I would've thought that was safe base defense...)
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The unit charts on the site here claim that pawn (marine/mecha/uling) defense values drop by -3 when capturing. However, in-game results suggest that this is wrong, that rather they seem like they get their full defense value plus the +2 for being on a base. Can anyone (Kralux) confirm that the site listings are old/wrong? Anyway fyi to others.
Example implication: if there is a defense penalty, a full strength wyrm and one swarmer will kill a capturing mecha with pretty much complete certainty; if not there's maybe a 1 in 5 chance the mecha will survive (which I saw twice messing around today).
Personally, I prefer the absence of a penalty, (a) capturing bases is their primary mission so they should be good at it , and (b) the game is more likely to move fast and be strategically interesting when base captures make for stronger threats (like mate threats work in chess).
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anybody? I feel sure there was a way to do this.
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Well, I follow man, I play plenty of Titans and have sent many mechas to their delightfully slow and tempo-disrupting deaths for the greater glory of the invading network. This situation here is very specific though, and my comments *were* in the context of having some hydros and contesting the sea/straits. And swarmers aren't going for mechas, it's more like Levis clearing mechas, swarmers landing on those hexes and hitting your walker(s), which is not such a great exchange as mecha vs. swarmer.
Sounds like you are interested in a more pure walker strategy against his build, which might be interesting – not sure how he would react, underlings can go for a fast capture once you've ceded the seas etc., it all depends whether you are building on peninsula or further north. Walkers will have to advance quite a bit before it/they can threaten to keep levis far enough back to threaten a base capture (your real threat probably being damaging levis or aerial that are forced to stop a base capture), and iluvkim's approach is to build up a lot of units and hit you hard at once, typically after you attempt one forward step too many with a walker.
Anyway, you don't have to convince me, which is useless, you have to beat him, and I still see him offering Montevideo so go for it. This small bit of education only cost me -1 ranking.
Now at 1951, not sure I like it though. Got booted twice trying to join games today. I see ichiro at 2400+ offering dead monk as Titans, I thought great to see a high-ranking Titans player on that map, I'll try an aggressive Khral and see how he beats me, but he just booted me, so I guess that's the plan against khral.  Also tried to join some ~2000 guy's Hurtgen as titans, figuring it was a sap map (he was sap) but I haven't even played it against a human so I'd try it for fun, and got booted from that too...
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Just not a lot of room on the peninsula, so not much room to pile in the mechas, and you might end up wishing you had something tougher there when the wave of aerial plus levis crashes. The walker created a bit more room temporarily (Levis backed up a space) but then he churned more swarmers in response. Of course more eclipses would be at expense of something else (like 1 less hydro = 2 more eclipse). Yes, knowing the build plan from the beginning definitely would help.
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don't get me wrong, btw, he executes beautifully and knows the game well for sure, has played literally thousands of games so, so hats off to him. Others might try to run his book play and foul it up for sure. Not at all convinced Titans can win but it seems like a tightrope. I did ask him if he's ever surprised on these maps he knows well and he says he's surprised all the time.
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yeah, game is looking over, indeed the walker was too hard to protect on peninsula. Mechas are too flimsy for sure, if I were to try again I'd build more eclipses than I had before attempting a walker, amass more hydros in the backing ocean if possible. But mostly that's trying to brainstorm on how to set up a draw. Not super optimistic, I think there's a reason why he plays that map and has that win ratio.
Ultimately, like I said I think the core characteristics are naval map and garudas are effective against , so I think this is an interesting variant of the naval war problem. There's just not much room on the peninsula and he's amassing levis, garuda and swarmers. So he controls when to fully swarm you. You have hydronauts behind to retaliate but lots of Garuda will get through. Feel free to try and let me know how it goes...
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